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Mar 4 2023 02:40pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 5 Mar 2023 04:32)
Its a valid point. What kusotarre did was attempt to move the goalposts. Basically "look China has advanced cities, their technology is equal or better the US, they would win a war with the US within 5 years"

Honestly right now the military capability, is not comparable; It is more accurate to say that if China avoids an internal disaster, they have the potential to match and rival the US militarily within a few generations.


For the bold part. After my partners met up with the governor of Guangzhou 3 weeks back and in two or three weeks I will be up in Chengdu and Chong Qing and meeting up with the Singapore Chamber of Commerce boys. I might gain more information and knowledge about the current internal conflicts.
It will be a very interesting 2 to 3 years down the road.

I kinda know what is happening there, so it might not be a good thing for the Chinese if they don't solve those internal problems.

:lol:

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Mar 4 2023 02:40pm
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Mar 4 2023 02:45pm
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ 4 Mar 2023 20:59)
^Prox1m1ty this is true in some ways. If you go to Shanghai , Shenzhen example and you compare these tier one cities in China and maybe New York and LA , London or Paris. You look at their infrastructure , implementation of digital currencies and transactions, Public transport systems, airports, you will probably think so too.
The same can be said of comparing Tokyo , Singapore , Seoul to those Tier 1 cities in the West.

Sounds like a data privacy nightmare tbh. Also note that it is quite common for places which developed later to have technologically superior infrastructure. For example, rich Western countries which were among the first adopters of the internet often times used copper lines which are nowadays slow and cumbersome to replace. Late adopters like Romania or Chile were able to go straight to optic fiber cables and thus have superior download speeds.


Quote (dro94 @ 4 Mar 2023 21:11)
I suppose we'll only know in 3-6 months whether taking Bakhmut was a pyrrhic victory for the Russians or not. If the loss of manpower and materiel is as severe as sources are saying, then maybe it was, but we don't know what the Ukrainian casualties were defending the city.

Fully agreed. When Russia finally captured Lysychantsk in early July after weeks-long, intense fighting, a lot of Russia-friendly commentators said that this was huge and would be the first domino in the imminent collapse of Ukraine's entire defensive line. As we know with the benefit of hindsight, it instead was a last gasp effort before the Russians ran out of steam for many months.

Now, I don't think Russia will run out of steam this time around, but capturing Bakhmut does not necessarily imply that they will gain proper forward momentum either.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 4 2023 02:46pm
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Mar 4 2023 02:50pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 5 Mar 2023 04:45)
Sounds like a data privacy nightmare tbh. Also note that it is quite common for places which developed later to have technologically superior infrastructure. For example, rich Western countries which were among the first adopters of the internet often times used copper lines which are nowadays slow and cumbersome to replace. Late adopters like Romania or Chile were able to go straight to optic fiber cables and thus have superior download speeds.



Fully agreed. When Russia finally captured Lysychantsk in early July after weeks-long, intense fighting, a lot of Russia-friendly commentators said that this was huge and would be the first domino in the imminent collapse of Ukraine's entire defensive line. As we know with the benefit of hindsight, it instead was a last gasp effort before the Russians ran out of steam for many months.

Now, I don't think Russia will run out of steam this time around, but capturing Bakhmut does not necessarily imply that they will gain proper forward momentum from now on.


Bold part, absolutely. There are political elites who are in hot debate with the central government especially in China because the central government wants to completely digitize their currency by 2028.
It is meeting with a lot of internal backlash which 99% of the people in China do not have an idea of it.

And this is dangerous for the world, because if the West adopt these digitize currencies in future , our privacy will be completely gone. We will be at the mercy of our governments.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Mar 4 2023 02:51pm
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Mar 4 2023 02:51pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 4 Mar 2023 17:13)
We've been over this point countless times: it was not the United States which begged the Eastern European countries to join NATO, it were these Eastern Europeans who were chomping at the bit to join NATO at the first opportunity because that's the only true protection against Russian revanchism. The Eastern Europeans always knew that the day would come when Russia is reinvigorated and is coming to restore its former empire. They decided, out of their own volition, that they would rather be America's bitch than ever having to live under Russian rule again.

Make of that what you will.


Wouldn't really call that countries are being a bitch to USA, but agree with the rest.

There are billboards just outside the base of the 76th Russian Division. One reads: “Russian borders don’t end anywhere.”
This is the standard definition of an empire because an empire recognizes no borders.

I’ll remind everyone of [Putin’s] ultimatum [to the U.S. and NATO] in December of 2021 — it’s crystal clear, it says in plain text that all of Eastern Europe is Vladimir Putin’s sphere of influence. How that will be worked out, whether it means a formal loss of sovereignty or not, what difference does it make? And this zone without a doubt includes East Germany, just because Putin has personal memories of it.

Russia’s general strategy is something like this: let’s bite off a piece, then that piece will be recognized as legitimate, and in the next phase, on the basis of that recognition, we can take something else.

[In this strategy’s logic,] we’ll bite off, roughly, eastern Ukraine, with the help of some kind of truce. Soon, we’ll start to hear voices from Europe, saying, “Well, it was their land, after all. Everyone agreed, it’s fine.” Well, wait a minute. If it’s “their” land — Russian land — because people there speak Russian, then what about eastern Estonia? You might say, “But Estonia is in NATO!” But will NATO fight for Estonia? Putin is absolutely sure that if the durability of Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty [the article ensuring collective defense] is tested at the right moment, NATO will fall apart.

To be clear, I don’t see what I’m talking about as the likeliest possibility. I’m describing Putin’s strategy, but Putin doesn’t rule the world. He’ll get as much as he’s allowed to get.
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Mar 4 2023 02:59pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 4 2023 12:32pm)
Its a valid point. What kusotarre did was attempt to move the goalposts. Basically "look China has advanced cities, their technology is equal or better the US, they would win a war with the US within 5 years"

Honestly right now the military capability, is not comparable; It is more accurate to say that if China avoids an internal disaster, they have the potential to match and rival the US militarily within a few generations.

Don't misunderstand me. When I link to RAND saying that the US has only a few more years where China can be be defeated militarily, I'm only doing that to tell you what US military strategists think.

I don't agree with them, I think China would win a conventional war today. They know it, too, which is why every time they wargame it out they place such silly restrictions on the Chinese side. It's Millennium Challenge 2002 all over again, just swapping out Iran for a far more powerful country.

Edit: And the reason I mentioned dropping old things and implementing new things is because China can watch things happen in Ukraine and implement the lessons immediately. The US, on the other hand, will continue spending hundreds of billions on F-35s and other doctrinally obsolete platforms because the point of the F-35 is not to win a war, it's to funnel money into Lockheed Martin.

This post was edited by kusotarre1 on Mar 4 2023 03:03pm
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Mar 4 2023 03:06pm
Quote (kusotarre1 @ Mar 4 2023 08:59pm)
Don't misunderstand me. When I link to RAND saying that the US has only a few more years where China can be be defeated militarily, I'm only doing that to tell you what US military strategists think.

I don't agree with them, I think China would win a conventional war today. They know it, too, which is why every time they wargame it out they place such silly restrictions on the Chinese side. It's Millennium Challenge 2002 all over again, just swapping out Iran for a far more powerful country.




Can you describe how China wins a direct conflict with the US?
How do you see that transgressing? What does that look like?
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Mar 4 2023 03:19pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 4 2023 01:06pm)
https://i.imgur.com/cGilz2o.gif

Can you describe how China wins a direct conflict with the US?
How do you see that transgressing? What does that look like?

Just look at any war game, reject the limitations placed on the Chinese side, and voila.

They'll flatten every base and sink every ship within the range of their enormous stockpile of missiles (missiles that America doesn't have the technology to produce, by the way), and America will either go nuclear or face a serious political crisis.
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Mar 4 2023 03:24pm
Quote (kusotarre1 @ Mar 4 2023 09:19pm)
Just look at any war game, reject the limitations placed on the Chinese side, and voila.

They'll flatten every base and sink every ship within the range of their enormous stockpile of missiles (missiles that America doesn't have the technology to produce, by the way), and America will either go nuclear or face a serious political crisis.


Uh huh... :rofl:
What wars game? Like Rome total war? :D
War with the military behemoth is not a game.

Grandstanding aside you act like the US with happily roll over when the Chinese click their fingers; It just isn't going to play out like that.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Mar 4 2023 03:27pm
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Mar 4 2023 03:37pm
Quote (kusotarre1 @ 4 Mar 2023 22:19)
Just look at any war game, reject the limitations placed on the Chinese side, and voila.

They'll flatten every base and sink every ship within the range of their enormous stockpile of missiles (missiles that America doesn't have the technology to produce, by the way), and America will either go nuclear or face a serious political crisis.


CCP days are counted but they will do everything to keep the power. Their population is ageing and their women don't even want children.

India & new emergents will get all the investments soon. I may add that we have proofs now of the inefficiency of these horrible regimes:
- China with covid and the failure of containement
- Russia and their frozen vision and terribly retarded army organization

They are not motivated, these people dont even want to help their own country because it sucks. That simple.
Not to mention all these regimes are falsifying their economic data.

You forgot to include submarines & Nuclear EMP in your equation.
CCP can be send back to stone edge anytime by any nuclear power country using ICBM or SLBM. Deterrence is terrible you should not talk about it, it brings bad luck ( :lol: )
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Mar 4 2023 03:42pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 4 2023 01:24pm)
Uh huh... :rofl:
What wars game? Like Rome total war? :D
War with the military behemoth is not a game.

Grandstanding aside you act like the US with happily roll over when the Chinese click their fingers; It just isn't going to play out like that.

War games like this: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/1/10/wargame-shows-taiwan-will-defeat-china-but-at-enourmous-costs

They're all designed these days to make sure nothing embarrassing like this happens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

America shit it's pants when someone leaked a photo of a dozen coffins coming back from Iraq. A Nimitz class carrier has about 5-6000 people on board. Figure it out.
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