Quote (excellence @ 14 Feb 2020 02:08)

ok wannabe thug go start fights with all the people you hate. it’s a long list so get started chump lmfao, pathetic..

Quote (excellence @ Feb 13 2020 06:08pm)

ok wannabe thug go start fights with all the people you hate. it’s a long list so get started chump lmfao, pathetic..

Quote (Brian_D @ Feb 13 2020 06:49pm)

No thug, just saying, you talk so much shit on here with your copy paste insults I just think you should go out into the world and get punched in the face and try to punch someone else in the face.

Quote (ssdrmstre @ Feb 13 2020 05:24pm)

For our college situation - It's not so much as I'm saying "Free college would be expensive" so much as "it it's not broken, don't fix it". I come from a pretty poor family and we had no issues whatsoever putting me through a 4 year degree at a world class university. Our system isn't without its problems, but everyone and anyone who wants to go to college can go right now. We are the world leaders in most fields of academic study, especially the marketable ones, and even a couple of the unmarketable ones. Theres a reasonable balance of government bloated bureacracy that is bearable by the market atm - why change it?

For healthcare - you probably have a reasonable point seeing as our current system is pretty much the worst of both worlds. I just disagree with it as I think most US physicians will be negatively impacted by it and there hasn't been any real numbers to say either way if it will be good or bad. To this point, I think the core issue of our current system is the corruption and sheer power insurance/healthcare admins have. Switching to a completely different system seems extreme to me as a much simpler solution exists in my mind of just ending/regulating the price gauging of private insurance companies.

to the third point - looking at how much his plans cost is a very good idea, even to his supporters. knowing if something that is "ideologically sound and fair" to you is viable and is actually the correct thing to do is pretty important when you're about to impose it on people who dont share your view.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Feb 14 2020 10:00am)

As a country we could easily, EASILY, pay for universal college for everyone. We regularly pay for it already in extra-budgetary expenses at the pentagon. Congress will frequently authorize extra expenditures that would more than cover the cost of Bernie's college plan. The bigger issue isn't "FREE COLLEGE WOULD BE EXPENSIVE" it's that we could redirect a small fraction of the budget from other sources, like military expenditures, into free college and we would see a much large economic return on that investment.

As for healthcare, even the most conservative estimates is that a national healthcare plan would cost 2 trillion less over ten years than we currently pay nationwide. With numbers like that even if Bernie's plan is just really expensive for some unforeseen reason he's got A LOT of wiggle room.

Fact is, we can definitely afford Bernie's most well known plans. The only reason you hear about "LOOK HOW MUCH BERNIE'S PLAN WILL COST" is because it doesn't directly benefit people with political power, like military contractors or insurance executives. When it's a policy that benefits the already powerful you will usually not hear about how many tens of billions of dollars it costs, it will just get in under the radar.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Feb 13 2020 09:34pm)

It is very broken though. The fact that you got through is great, but that's not available to everybody, and even if people are able to pay back their loans it's a huge drag on the economy having them pay back tens of thousands right out of college. The government would probably get back more in increased economic activity from relieving all that debt from almost every new worker. Even then, it's a very cheap fix relative to other things that we are spending money on. 60 billion a year of peanuts compared to some projects that you just never hear about and generate much less in return.

Like I said on healthcare, even if it's more expensive than we think it is, at worst they have 200 billion dollars every year in cushion before it just breaks even with our current system. Hell, even if it costs us an extra 200 billion dollars a year it would be worth it if it fixed the underlying problems. So basically, even if you think it will be expensive, there's virtually no chance it's more expensive than the system we have now and also virtually no chance it will be a worse system.

Quote (fender @ Feb 13 2020 06:05pm)

he should have just said "i will give everyone healthcare, and mexico will pay for it", and people would be cheering, rather than regurgitating lazy talking points by pundits on tv stations that - on a totally unrelated note (*wink wink, nudge nudge) - make huge profits from big pharma and the insurance industry.
but hey, it's highly problematic, even "dangerous" that bernie doesn't have the exact numbers (that predictably would be used to unfairly misrepresent his efforts if they turned out to be not 100% correct predictions, even if made to the best of his knowledge) for something as complex and extensive as ovehauling the whole healthcare system. all he has is that every serious estimate and even studies by conservative think tanks all predict it will be CHEAPER than continuing the current system.

seriously, the whole 'he doesn't know how to pay for it' narrative completely falls apart if you actually listened to him talk in detail about his proposals, or just read up on what is easily accessible information: https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file

it's really tiresome that so many people, who quite obviously only get their information from right wing and establishment main stream media, don't have the intellectual curiosity to question those claims, just uncritically accept them as true, and then bother other people with their ignorance online...

Quote (Brian_D @ Feb 13 2020 07:49pm)

No thug, just saying, you talk so much shit on here with your copy paste insults I just think you should go out into the world and get punched in the face and try to punch someone else in the face. Like a gym.

Quote (ssdrmstre @ Feb 14 2020 05:32pm)

probably true given how bad our current system is, but I fear it really would take us in the wrong direction of correcting the issue and I dont think anyone argues wages and hours for physicians would go in a bad direction under the plan.

I wonder how long physicians will put up with it until primary care docs move to stuff like direct primary care models.



quality post thanks for your input


xD

btw that link has pretty optimistic numbers on how they are going to raise money to fund the project. From the tone of your post I dare not question further though, you seem too bigoted for any intellectual discourse

Quote (Plaguefear @ Feb 14 2020 08:55am)

I disagree, doctors wages are still excellent here.

Quote (Landmine @ 14 Feb 2020 07:13)

True Nazi right here. Just another example of the left and their scum like behavior.