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#231
Oct 14 2019 07:58pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Oct 15 2019 12:56pm)
I take issue with your word choice because it's literally the exact buzzwords the msm uses which leads me to believe that honestly you have done little critical thinking and are just reciting their points.

The problem is your incredibly ignorant of what these realities mean. Turkey has the largest Kurd population in the world at about 15 million. The next 3 countries combined, Iran, Iraq and Syria don't have that many. Allowing a strong Kurd force to post up on their border is a potential existential threat to their territorial integrity long term. Kurds want a home nation, there is almost no scenario in which southeastern Turkey is not considered part of that homeland if it were to happen. Outside of war there was no stopping Turkey because to them this is a massive deal.

So no, the only way we stop Turkey is with threat of war and honestly that's a price too high for me to want to defend the Kurds. Trump and the Euros pulled out because intelligent people understand this reality and there is no bluffs to be called. Turkey was coming, you either defend the Kurds through force or gtfo the way.


This is how the ugandan genocide happened, everyone just looked the other way and talked this same nonsense.
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#232
Oct 14 2019 08:09pm
Quote (Plaguefear @ Oct 14 2019 09:58pm)
This is how the ugandan genocide happened, everyone just looked the other way and talked this same nonsense.


He is a godless man with no respect for life. You're making the wrong appeal.

This post was edited by Skinned on Oct 14 2019 08:10pm
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#233
Oct 14 2019 08:11pm
Quote (Skinned @ 15 Oct 2019 04:09)
He is a godless man with no respect for life. You're making the wrong appeal.


funny thing is, those with the most blatant disregard for human life are often those that claim to be the very opposite of 'godless'. they are devout christians / muslims...
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#234
Oct 14 2019 08:13pm
I'm quite worried this will become a massacre, was there anyway to prevent it?
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#235
Oct 14 2019 08:20pm
Quote (Skinned @ Oct 14 2019 10:09pm)
He is a godless man with no respect for life. You're making the wrong appeal.


I'm a pragmatic utilitarian. The type that might care less about Franz Ferdinand being popped because that's exponentially less bad than 16 million people dying.

Quote (GodSmiter @ Oct 14 2019 10:13pm)
I'm quite worried this will become a massacre, was there anyway to prevent it?


The Kurds can simply move into Assad territory or go back east. They don't want to lose that territory though. The only prevention was the Kurds not taking that land or us stepping up to a war with Turkey to stop them from going after the Kurds.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Oct 14 2019 08:21pm
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#236
Oct 14 2019 08:24pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Oct 14 2019 09:56pm)
I take issue with your word choice because it's literally the exact buzzwords the msm uses which leads me to believe that honestly you have done little critical thinking and are just reciting their points.

The problem is your incredibly ignorant of what these realities mean. Turkey has the largest Kurd population in the world at about 15 million. The next 3 countries combined, Iran, Iraq and Syria don't have that many. Allowing a strong Kurd force to post up on their border is a potential existential threat to their territorial integrity long term. Kurds want a home nation, there is almost no scenario in which southeastern Turkey is not considered part of that homeland if it were to happen. Outside of war there was no stopping Turkey because to them this is a massive deal.

So no, the only way we stop Turkey is with threat of war and honestly that's a price too high for me to want to defend the Kurds. Trump and the Euros pulled out because intelligent people understand this reality and there is no bluffs to be called. Turkey was coming, you either defend the Kurds through force or gtfo the way.


Not an argument.

I'm not though. And neither are America's diplomats and national security officials who have tried to manage Turkey's legitimate concerns. They've made accommodations for months by moving Kurds back, and if Trump actually cared about maintaining that presence there, we could've continued to manage that issue. Erdogan pushed because he saw a commander in chief who wanted to pull out, and he was right.

But now Trump's stuck pretending he didn't acquiesce to Erdogan, so he has to slap on symbolic sanctions to get the Republican party to shut up.
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#237
Oct 14 2019 08:33pm
Quote (IceMage @ Oct 14 2019 10:24pm)
Not an argument.

I'm not though. And neither are America's diplomats and national security officials who have tried to manage Turkey's legitimate concerns. They've made accommodations for months by moving Kurds back, and if Trump actually cared about maintaining that presence there, we could've continued to manage that issue. Erdogan pushed because he saw a commander in chief who wanted to pull out, and he was right.

But now Trump's stuck pretending he didn't acquiesce to Erdogan, so he has to slap on symbolic sanctions to get the Republican party to shut up.


Baffling how obsessed you are with Trump and how you think he is the center piece of something happening in the ME.

There comes a time when people don't care about what diplomats have to say. Either the Kurds moved or Turkey was coming. Delaying by talking doesn't change that condition. After years of talking about it and us 'managing their concerns' they decided to do something about it.

This wasn't a new concern. Everyone paying attention and even remotely informed knew that the Turks were not going to allow Kurdish militia to control the Syrian border with Turkey. This was known 5 years ago. Just because they media didn't spam it for you to pay attention to doesn't mean the Turks were all hunky dory and all of the sudden because...Trump, they decided to go after the Kurds.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Oct 14 2019 08:40pm
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#238
Oct 14 2019 09:27pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ 15 Oct 2019 04:20)
I'm a pragmatic utilitarian. The type that might care less about Franz Ferdinand being popped because that's exponentially less bad than 16 million people dying.



The Kurds can simply move into Assad territory or go back east. They don't want to lose that territory though. The only prevention was the Kurds not taking that land or us stepping up to a war with Turkey to stop them from going after the Kurds.


do you never get tired of being so ridiculously wrong?
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#239
Oct 14 2019 09:51pm
Quote (Skinned @ 14 Oct 2019 22:09)
He is a godless man with no respect for life. You're making the wrong appeal.


Quote (fender @ 14 Oct 2019 22:11)
funny thing is, those with the most blatant disregard for human life are often those that claim to be the very opposite of 'godless'. they are devout christians / muslims...



yikes two people who worship those who followed derivatives of Marxism which are directly responsible for 100MM+ dead last century attempting to lecture anyone else on morality
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#240
Oct 14 2019 09:56pm
Quote (GodSmiter @ Oct 14 2019 07:13pm)
I'm quite worried this will become a massacre, was there anyway to prevent it?



Yes. The war was over. Nobody was fighting anymore. There was peace. Then Trump negotiated with Erdogan to allow the Turks to slaughter the Kurds like they did the Armenians. Now thousands of ISIS jihadists are free and bombs are raining within Rojava and Syria and Iraq and civilians including young children are being slaughtered. All our soldiers had to do was sit for a while and not engage in any new warfare until a president with a stronger sense of foreign policy (someone who wouldn't let a brutal dictator unflinchingly tell them what to do like that pussy Donald Trump) could take office. That's literally it. Just sit there and everything was peaceful. Republicans love war and the slaughter of innocent children though so they support this.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Oct 14 2019 09:58pm
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