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Aug 13 2018 01:44pm
Quote (Horford @ Aug 13 2018 01:29pm)
that's fair, and I agree with (bold) and is important. Horowitz also came to that conclusion as his report said FBI decisions weren't the direct result of any bias.


a fine but important distinction, he said there was no evidence that the decisions were the direct result of any bias. that's a VERY loaded statement legally.

no evidence =/= evidence to the contrary (example: if there was another message that Strzok said, "i had the chance to really F over Trump today, but i'm not gonna do something to risk my job because i dont like the guy")

direct result =/= bias free (think of what i said about different vs inordinate, he could have been slightly pushed one way or the other, that's largely unprovable)

part of the game at play here is that its quite possible his political biases made him make small decisions along the way that could have had large impacts in the long run, a man in his position throws a pebble and the ripples can be much larger. it's not possible in a non-Minority Report world to prove this stuff. That's why the political, but acceptable in light of precedent, decision was made to fire him. The circumstances are similar to HRC, but no one who thought her actions were fishy could fire her.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 13 2018 01:32pm)
Well said. The problem with the FBI in the last 2-3 years isnt that they are acting politically in the sense of being influenced by political considerations brought to them from the outside - no, the problem is that the FBI has started to show tendencies of becoming a political actor of its own, which, in the case of an authority as powerful as the FBI, necessarily leads to an inacceptable abuse of power if those tendencies go unchecked.



cell phones and email are all thats changed in my opinion. the FBI has always been a semi-rogue agency that's heavily influenced by politicians.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Aug 13 2018 01:45pm
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Aug 13 2018 01:54pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 13 2018 01:05pm)
So you think Horowitz testified that he did not have confidence in Strzok's prioritization of the investigations, without having any reason for such doubts?
Horowitz was speaking in an intentional negative instead of affirmative because that is the difference between having evidence and having proof.
As penis_hat said, it would require inordinate proof for Horowitz to affirmatively testify that Strzok acted with bias in the decision making. Anything short of a smoking gun or confession, and all Horowitz could give is a no-confidence.

If Horowitz didn't have reason to believe Strzok's bias tinged his priorities, he would not have testified that he had no confidence the priorities were untinged by bias.
These kinds of doublespeak double-negatives have been pretty common in politics and FBI testimony / press since forever.


Did not have confidence the decision to prioritize Russia investigation over following up on Weiner laptop was free from bias, in light of his text messages.

the OIG found substantial reason to believe that Strzok's personal bias interfered with his prioritizing the Trump investigation over the Hillary investigation

These claims are not the same thing.
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Aug 13 2018 02:15pm
Quote (IceMage @ Aug 13 2018 01:54pm)
Did not have confidence the decision to prioritize Russia investigation over following up on Weiner laptop was free from bias, in light of his text messages.

the OIG found substantial reason to believe that Strzok's personal bias interfered with his prioritizing the Trump investigation over the Hillary investigation

These claims are not the same thing.


the former statement is one he would not have made without the latter statement being true.
He would not have testified to 'no confidence' without there being reason for that no confidence. If he had no substantial evidence, he would have testified that he 'had no reason to believe Strzok's bias impacted his handling of the investigation'- which is what Horowitz testified about Strzok's actions within the investigations, but not with the handling of the prioritization between them. He gets up and says he no confidence in proposition A, but has no reason to believe proposition B. There's a clear difference.
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Aug 13 2018 03:31pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Aug 13 2018 02:23pm)
Better grab the tinfoil then


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Aug 13 2018 04:53pm
Quote (Surfpunk @ Aug 13 2018 05:31pm)


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Aug 14 2018 05:58am
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Aug 14 2018 06:58am
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 13 2018 03:15pm)
the former statement is one he would not have made without the latter statement being true.
He would not have testified to 'no confidence' without there being reason for that no confidence. If he had no substantial evidence, he would have testified that he 'had no reason to believe Strzok's bias impacted his handling of the investigation'- which is what Horowitz testified about Strzok's actions within the investigations, but not with the handling of the prioritization between them. He gets up and says he no confidence in proposition A, but has no reason to believe proposition B. There's a clear difference.


He ends the sentence with "in light of the text messages", which implies that without those text messages revealing Strzok's bias against Trump, he wouldn't have a firm reason to say he doesn't have confidence that Strzok's decision was free from bias. Otherwise, it's just a difference of opinion over prioritization of investigations... and it's not difficult to see why the Russia investigation was significantly more urgent and important than the Hillary investigation.


---

https://twitter.com/joshscampbell/status/1029106880126234625

I tend to lean towards this argument on Strzok's firing.

This post was edited by IceMage on Aug 14 2018 07:14am
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Aug 14 2018 07:00am
Quote (EndlessSky @ Aug 13 2018 05:53pm)


stupid frogposter
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Aug 14 2018 07:19am




The President's morning words of inspiration and encouragement for the nation
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Aug 14 2018 07:24am
Quote (Beowulf @ Aug 14 2018 08:19am)
https://i.imgur.com/SgvSxHa.png

https://i.imgur.com/0Xlr9MV.png

The President's morning words of inspiration and encouragement for the nation


Complainer-in-chief.

Also lol @ calling his former black employee a dog.
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