Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 1 2023 06:57am)

One might argue Russias reaction or lack off reaction might improve any chance of getting longer range weapons.

We heard people argue that Russia would use nukes if allies sent Ukraine tanks.
Or if Russias territory was attacked.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 1 2023 02:57am)

One might argue Russias reaction or lack off reaction might improve any chance of getting longer range weapons.

We heard people argue that Russia would use nukes if allies sent Ukraine tanks.
Or if Russias territory was attacked.

Was Putin bluffing after all?

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 1 2023 10:10am)

yep give them jets. what could possibly go wrong.

Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Mar 1 2023 10:21am)

Maybe so but I think a big part of the debate about sending those weapons was whether Ukraine would use them solely to remove Russian forces from Ukraine or if they would strike inside of Russia.

What do you mean bluffing? I have not seen a statement from Putin saying anything about "if NATO/Whoever sends X I will use a nuclear weapon" have you? He has made vague threats about using them, but no specific red line in terms of when he would use one that I have seen.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 1 2023 11:52am)

You realize Ukraine already have jets? < Yes

What in actuality do you foresee going wrong with sending Ukraine jets? < A further escalation and loss of life and potentially WW3

I mean specifically, not just an affirmation of an impending world war 3. < escalated bombing in Ukraine above that which is currently taking place.

Personally I don't think it would be advantageous to send Western jets. Mainly because of the logistics/training required is too great; Sending MiG's from Poland would make the most sense if they were to do it. < a Mig is a jet.



Yes I think its important to be clear. Putin did NOT make a clear statement along the lines of "If Leopard 2's arrive in Ukraine, I will launch nuclear weapons at 13 hundred hours." < in fact afaik he said, sure send tanks this is not a red line for us.
It is fair to extrapolate from the statements that Putin was implying he WOULD use a nuclear weapon in response to NATO's continued support for Ukraine. < No.

I actually believe the idea of a repercussion from Russia, for supplying Ukraine, is a self imposed idea in the West; It is also an achievement of Putin sabre rattling and getting a response from adversaries. < No idea what you said here.

When we are objective about the potential of Russia using a nuclear weapon, what are we seeing as possible gains for Putin/Russia? < Russia has not nuked anyone and we are a long way off from that yet.
The implied threat of nuclear force is far more powerful than actually using one, in terms of benefit/cost. < well yes. if russia did not have nuclear weapons the US would have invaded russia a long time ago.

The only scenario where using a nuke would benefit Russia in the short term at least, more than the cost. Would be to attack say Warsaw, Berlin or London. < WW3 does not benefit anyone.
Is that likely? I highly doubt it, as the midterm cost to Russia is mutually assured destruction. < midterm?

Unless I am missing something here, the probability of Putin using a nuclear weapon is extremely low; Never zero, but low. < yes

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 1 2023 12:15pm)

there.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 1 2023 12:17pm)

I don't have alot of time, thanks for repling.

I will just ask for now, how you escalate from an already all out conflict?
Ukraine having more air power would in my opinion would reduce/remove certain threats from areas in Ukraine.

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 1 2023 12:59pm)

its not an all out conflict. or rather it is not "total war". If russia were to do total war there would be complete conscription in russia.

your not wrong re: reduce/remove certain threats. the fear, that the US has, is that the jets will be used to attack russia directly.

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 1 2023 12:59pm)

its not an all out conflict. or rather it is not "total war". If russia were to do total war there would be complete conscription in russia.

your not wrong re: reduce/remove certain threats. the fear, that the US has, is that the jets will be used to attack russia directly.