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Aug 7 2018 02:16am
Quote (Horford @ Aug 6 2018 09:41pm)
So to me, this is a clear Federal Election violation by the Trump campaign. Whereas the Russians' promise of opposition research, or simply put, 'Dirt', is a "OTHER THING OF VALUE"

https://www.fec.gov/regulations/110-20/2018-annual-110#110-20-a-4-i


Because that statute only applies to things of monetary value.
If a prosecutor attempted to extend 'things of value' to mean information, the prosecution would violate half the fucking constitution. It would be struck down on vagueness doctrine- the statute is unconstitutionally vague and the courts would give it a limited construction to say that 'things of value' refers only to things of monetary value, returning you to square one. It would be struck down as a violation of the 1st amendment. The government cannot pass laws that regulate forms of expression and pure non-commercial information as a campaign finance. And if it were applied as such, it would mean that half the journalists and political consultants in America have violated FEC rules and would need to be locked up, because just interviewing a non-citizen or holding a conversation would be a violation. It would be struck down as an ex post facto redefinition of a statute to retroactively apply to something that was not a crime at the time. And even though all that, its a statute with a minor penalty that has been historically punished with a slap on the wrist. Bernie Sanders was already fined by the FEC for receiving a 'thing of value' in the form of in-kind donations from the Australian Labor Party in the 2016 election; they sent volunteers to knock on doors using their own funding. He got fined $14,500. It didn't even make page 5 of the papers.



'show me the man', right?

This post was edited by Goomshill on Aug 7 2018 02:16am
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Aug 7 2018 02:41am
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 7 2018 04:16am)
Because that statute only applies to things of monetary value.
If a prosecutor attempted to extend 'things of value' to mean information, the prosecution would violate half the fucking constitution. It would be struck down on vagueness doctrine- the statute is unconstitutionally vague and the courts would give it a limited construction to say that 'things of value' refers only to things of monetary value, returning you to square one. It would be struck down as a violation of the 1st amendment. The government cannot pass laws that regulate forms of expression and pure non-commercial information as a campaign finance. And if it were applied as such, it would mean that half the journalists and political consultants in America have violated FEC rules and would need to be locked up, because just interviewing a non-citizen or holding a conversation would be a violation. It would be struck down as an ex post facto redefinition of a statute to retroactively apply to something that was not a crime at the time. And even though all that, its a statute with a minor penalty that has been historically punished with a slap on the wrist. Bernie Sanders was already fined by the FEC for receiving a 'thing of value' in the form of in-kind donations from the Australian Labor Party in the 2016 election; they sent volunteers to knock on doors using their own funding. He got fined $14,500. It didn't even make page 5 of the papers.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%91%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F%2C_1920-%D0%B5_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%8B.jpg/220px-%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%91%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F%2C_1920-%D0%B5_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%8B.jpg

'show me the man', right?




There ya go again. Posting facts that the Hillarites don't want to know about. Tsk, tsk. :D
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Aug 7 2018 02:50am
Sander and Australian labor party does not seems something we can compare seriously with Trump (team) collusion.
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Aug 7 2018 02:54am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Aug 7 2018 02:50am)
Sander and Australian labor party does not seems something we can compare seriously with Trump (team) collusion.


yeah, Sanders actually committed a crime of illegal collusion with a foreign government to influence the 2016 election, and Trump did not
hence not comparable.
:rofl:
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Aug 7 2018 03:02am
Quote (Goomshill @ 7 Aug 2018 09:54)
yeah, Sanders actually committed a crime of illegal collusion with a foreign government to influence the 2016 election, and Trump did not
hence not comparable.
:rofl:


was the labor in charge of the government in 2016 / head of the state ? No, it's a minority party
can we compare 14k $ with the whole Russian interference? No
Are secret services and national defense involved? No
was is done secretly with alot of lies and a full federal investigation behind it? No

Sry typos, phone. (keks gl)
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Aug 7 2018 04:25am
Quote (Goomshill @ 7 Aug 2018 09:16)
Because that statute only applies to things of monetary value.
If a prosecutor attempted to extend 'things of value' to mean information, the prosecution would violate half the fucking constitution. It would be struck down on vagueness doctrine- the statute is unconstitutionally vague and the courts would give it a limited construction to say that 'things of value' refers only to things of monetary value, returning you to square one. It would be struck down as a violation of the 1st amendment. The government cannot pass laws that regulate forms of expression and pure non-commercial information as a campaign finance. And if it were applied as such, it would mean that half the journalists and political consultants in America have violated FEC rules and would need to be locked up, because just interviewing a non-citizen or holding a conversation would be a violation. It would be struck down as an ex post facto redefinition of a statute to retroactively apply to something that was not a crime at the time. And even though all that, its a statute with a minor penalty that has been historically punished with a slap on the wrist. Bernie Sanders was already fined by the FEC for receiving a 'thing of value' in the form of in-kind donations from the Australian Labor Party in the 2016 election; they sent volunteers to knock on doors using their own funding. He got fined $14,500. It didn't even make page 5 of the papers.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%91%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F%2C_1920-%D0%B5_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%8B.jpg/220px-%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%91%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F%2C_1920-%D0%B5_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%8B.jpg

'show me the man', right?


you might not consider information a thing of value (what a truly trumpian attitude), but their effort to obtain that information, the hacking itself for sure is something of monetary value.
if you were consistent in your argument, and not a complete hack, you'd otherwise reason that bernie was unjustifiably fined since the volunteers just knocked on doors and spoke to people, no one donated money, so according to your 'logic' it was a violation of 'half the fucking constitution'.
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Aug 7 2018 05:02am
Quote (fender @ Aug 7 2018 04:25am)
you might not consider information a thing of value (what a truly trumpian attitude), but their effort to obtain that information, the hacking itself for sure is something of monetary value.
if you were consistent in your argument, and not a complete hack, you'd otherwise reason that bernie was unjustifiably fined since the volunteers just knocked on doors and spoke to people, no one donated money, so according to your 'logic' it was a violation of 'half the fucking constitution'.


the volunteers were given a stipend and airfare to cover their costs. Paid in money. Money, a thing of value. $24,422 in specific, which came from the ADL, and paid for campaigning in the US.
thank you heinrich von goebbels for living up to your normal reputation
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Aug 7 2018 05:08am
Quote (Goomshill @ 7 Aug 2018 12:02)
the volunteers were given a stipend and airfare to cover their costs. Paid in money. Money, a thing of value. $24,422 in specific, which came from the ADL, and paid for campaigning in the US.
thank you heinrich von goebbels for living up to your normal reputation


and you think hackers work for free?!
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Aug 7 2018 05:24am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Aug 7 2018 08:02pm)
was the labor in charge of the government in 2016 / head of the state ? No, it's a minority party
can we compare 14k $ with the whole Russian interference? No
Are secret services and national defense involved? No
was is done secretly with alot of lies and a full federal investigation behind it? No

Sry typos, phone. (keks gl)


Labor is not a minority party, they get 53% of the vote or so.
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Aug 7 2018 05:40am
Quote (Plaguefear @ 7 Aug 2018 12:24)
Labor is not a minority party, they get 53% of the vote or so.


please tell us how much people they had in executive and legislative in 2016 first semester.
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