Japan promises to 'lead the world' in fighting Russian aggression with $5.5 billion in Ukraine aid

/Lol wtf ?



no



Omg free will democracies nazis attacking the poor nice gulag legit Russia with their anti-agression treaties.

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Feb 22 2023 09:28am

I don't think China has done anything up to this point? They actually could put pressure on Russia, but if anything they are facilitating Putin's regime; Which in turn facilitates Putin's war because it suits China's national interest to maintain trade/status quo relationship with Russia.




If its a good idea is debatable, if it would be accurate is another thing. There are not many synonyms for appeasement.

Dude, I was talking about the fact that there was ongoing military conflict in Ukraine's eastern provinces, plus territorial disputes regarding Crimea. According to NATO statutes, a country involved in ongoing military conflict or territorial disputes is literally ineligible. That is why Ukraine joining NATO was not realistically up for debate anytime soon - an argument which did not apply to any of the other Eastern European countries which joined NATO throughout the 90s and 2000s.

By creating a frozen conflict in the Donbass in 2014, a conflict that he could turn hot again at any moment, Putin had already achieved the goal of preventing Ukraine from joining NATO. Which again goes to show that the whole "NATO eastern expansion" argument is just a fig leaf for Russia's imperialist ambitions.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Feb 22 2023 09:23am

It's dangerous to make blanket historical comparisons.

The Germans had a large advantage in military spending circa 1938, the result of an unsustainably vast military build-up. France and Britain were beginning to ramp up military spending in response, but did not feel ready for war in 1938. The Germans moved to invade Poland in 1939 because their window to launch a war was closing, without moving to war footing their military spending would have to fall and Britain and France would catch up. Contrast to the present situation, Russia does not enjoy a large advantage in military spending today and lacks the economic might to ramp that up. Any force they could bring to bear against the Baltics or Poland would pale in comparison to the 60 divisions and 1.5 million men that the Germans leveraged against the Poles.

Ukraine should have cast off the Donbass as a means of eliminating Russian influence in Ukraine. At which point they could solidify their security situation and join NATO for security guarantees. Instead, they've ended up in a hot war with Russia proper and can't join NATO until they've extricated themselves from that situation. Russia routinely uses pro-Russian, Russian speaking enclaves as proxies in an effort to undermine the sovereignty of its neighbors. Cast off the Russian speaking enclaves, and that leverage starts to disappear.

China, in interviews, acknowledged Russia's security concerns, and being delicate now, we have already spoken of a scenario of what would happen if a country in the western hemisphere allied with Russia or China (the US would invade them). In terms of what China will or wont do, it was made clear in that 10 minute 2023 Munich conference speech which I referred to earlier. i.e. they will seek for the parties involved to sit down and talk and try through diplomatic channels, rather then from the barrel of a gun, to find a compromise solution. You already know the Ukrainian response to this (we will not negotiate) and that England is on record as advising them not to negotiate and I would be positive the US position is the same.

ergo, the China trip is as you said, giving legitimacy to one of the parties. I wonder if China will also visit Ukraine and the US? to be quite frank regardless of anyones views on China, they are trying to find a peaceful solution.



a good post.

This post was edited by ferdia on Feb 22 2023 09:30am

True.
It isn't dangerous to say that appeasement is a bad strategy.
Very debatable what your suggesting about casting off the Donbass; There was little pushback for the annexation of Crimea, and now there is a broader conflict.

We are already seeing reports of Russian instigated unrest in Moldova.

The cost of aggression has to be higher for Russia or other aggressive states to deter this situation from happening.

Interested in seeing that record?

Would Russia have been satisfied with the Donbass, or with the Russian-speaking provinces of Ukraine? I genuinely don't know. What we do know is that at the start of this war, Russia didn't focus its efforts on securing said regions, they went for Kyiv, Kharkiv and Odessa instead. Also, given the frequency with which Russia is kidnapping children and people from the occupied regions, would they have accepted to a population swap? Would they have let the pro-Ukraine or pro-West residents of the Donbass leave? Would the government in Kyiv have allowed pro-Russian folks from their territory to move to the Donbass? Such a "peaceful separation" is imho a lot more complicated than it sounds at first.

China is in an awkward place. They will maintain their relationship with Russia because, like Germany re: Austria-Hungary in WWI, it is the only other "great" power with whom they're likely to find common ground. Their geostrategic position without Russia is terrible. On the other hand, they rely heavily on "territorial integrity" as a narrative because it's through that avenue that they claim sovereignty over Taiwan. If the Donbass can be carved out from Ukraine, Taiwan can be carved out of China.

what record? I refer you to Boris Johnston. This point was discussed in the topic previously. last year Boris helped scupper the deal on the table between Ukraine and Russia.



i dont think so. i think either way they would not want(read: accept) Ukraine in Nato.

This post was edited by ferdia on Feb 22 2023 09:34am