Quote (ferdia @ 21 Feb 2023 20:29)

From a neutral standpoint: you cant cherry pick from the two when it suits you, and I would argue anyone can interchange these words (as they have in this thread, on numerous times). Here are some examples:

From a Pro Russian standpoint: Russian appeasement of Nato over the last 20 years could be argued was an effort to prevent a future war.
From a Pro Russian standpoint: Russia compromised with Nato over the last 20 years as it did not want a war.

From a Pro US standpoint: The US has appeased Russia in this war by not giving Ukraine long range weapons or declaring it would send troops if Russia invaded so as to prevent a direct war between the West and Russia.
From a Pro US standpoint: The US has compromised with Russia in this war by not giving Ukraine long range weapons or sending Nato Troops so as to prevent a direct war between the West and Russia.

i.e. interchangeable. I dont mind if you want to flog a dead horse and stand by your position but to my mind you are not correct on this point sir.

also I see Topsha has been banned. The self proclaimed "academic" who was A Multi, A Liar and a Zealous Ultra Nationalist Russian. He also could not read, or chose not to read (I mean he called me Polish when its clear from post #3 - which I had referred to him, that I stated I was irish). He promoted violence and genocide and was incapable or unwilling to comprehend simple simple right from wrong behaviour. Very poor IQ to be banned within 24 hours.

Hopefully the next time we get a multi like this he will abide by this sites rules. Its ok to have a different view, but try to articulate it civilly.

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Feb 21 2023 01:01pm)

I can assure you Topsha is a multi that belonged to the ones that are banned for the past month.
Whether is he Russian or not is yet to be confirmed ( Please note Ukrainians can speak and write the Russian language as well ).

I think he is here on your thread to drive a wedge and it is on purpose, thus dividing opinions and creating an extreme environment to curb reasonable and civil discussions.

Quote (ferdia @ 21 Feb 2023 21:03)

to be clear: a baddie. I would hope that different views notwithstanding, we should all abhor baddies. especially when they double post.

also ^Goomshill posted a very good topic here: https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=99456324&f=119 relating to recent comments made by the US, Russia and China.

Quote (Goomshill @ Feb 21 2023 12:14pm)

Today three world leaders are giving rival speeches and geopolitical maneuvers

Joe Biden is giving a speech in Warsaw after his trip to Kiev, laying out how the Biden Administration will continue an uncapped supply of weaponry to Ukraine "for as long as it takes", announcing a new package of weaponry and another wave of sanctions on Russia.

Vladimir Putin just finished speaking in Moscow, declaring the Ukraine war to be existential to Russia, that the separatist regions annexed by Russia will be rebuilt and developed, and as of a few minutes ago, declaring that the new START nuclear treat with America to be suspended.
per the BBC;


Simultaneously, the top foreign policy minister of China, Wang Yi, has been on a tour concerned with the Ukraine War, visiting the Munich conference and Moscow
Wang Yi said that China will lay out a peace plan for Ukraine, with Xi Jinping set to give a speech on it come Saturday, with China to play a role as peace mediators.



I don't think anyone can claim with certainty where the world is headed in the next few months or years, but this is the kind of geopolitical posturing at a top level we see quite rarely. One for the history books, or just a footnote of the history books if nothing happens. After all, the most likely outcome for the Ukraine war is still the logic one, a peace deal upon status quo lines. But with Russia and the US both ready to escalate and China finally willing to throw its weight around, well this has all the drama of the Munich or Yalta conferences.

Quote (Goomshill)

I don't think anyone can claim with certainty where the world is headed in the next few months or years, but this is the kind of geopolitical posturing at a top level we see quite rarely. One for the history books, or just a footnote of the history books if nothing happens. After all, the most likely outcome for the Ukraine war is still the logic one, a peace deal upon status quo lines. But with Russia and the US both ready to escalate and China finally willing to throw its weight around, well this has all the drama of the Munich or Yalta conferences.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 21 Feb 2023 21:28)

I fully agree with this assessment. There is just one issue: neither Russia nor Ukraine have any appetite for accepting the current status quo until further fighting has taken place. China can throw its weight around all it wants, as long as both Russia and Ukraine think they will be in a better position 6 or 12 months from now, diplomatic initiatives stand no chance.

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Feb 21 2023 01:32pm)

China was being coaxed to take a stand in this conflict by some EU countries. At least that is what I think is happening. They don't really care and have no intention to throw their weight around. Too far away from their "sphere of influence".

Quote (ferdia @ 21 Feb 2023 21:34)

That or they acknowledge the threat of a, ermm, escalated wider conflict, which is not in anyones interests.

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ 21 Feb 2023 14:32)

China was being coaxed to take a stand in this conflict by some EU countries. At least that is what I think is happening. They don't really care and have no intention to throw their weight around. Too far away from their "sphere of influence".

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 21 Feb 2023 21:45)

Good point, that's how I interpret it as well. China protraying the voice of reason and peace is good PR on the global stage. And China is one of the biggest geopolitical beneficiaries of this war anyway, they don't actually have an interest in it ending so soon. The war has greatly increased the Russian dependence on China and all but guarantees China access to extra cheap Russian commodities, all while the West is economically weakened by higher energy prices and surging inflation. And all Western defense spending which is thrown to the meatgrinder in Ukraine is spending that can't be used against China.