Quote (ferdia @ Feb 20 2023 11:44am)
From a Pro American Stand Point:
In the run up to the war there was a concern that Germany and Western Europe's resolve in supporting Ukraine would be put to the test if Russia "Weaponised" Energy. i.e. Russian gas is cheap, and Russia could simply blackmail europe into doing things europe would otherwise not do. Something like : "stop encroaching on us / stop supporting Ukraine / No Nato expansion". The Nord Stream 2 Pipeline should never have been built as it strengthed the dependance Europe would have on co-operating with Russia. This is not in US Interests, and from a US standpoint, is not in EU interests noting Russia and Putin are viewed with hostility.
Therefore, on balance of the evidence, cause and effect, etc, it is my view that the US blew up the Nord Stream 2 in order to firm European resolve to not negotiate or bow to Russian aggression. Ultimalty Ukraine is a soverign state and should be included in conversations re: Europe and it ill becomes Europe to in any way tacitly support Ukraine's destruction / partition, at the hands of Russia, therefore EU countries should (a) not have allowed this thing to be built in the first place and (b) not complain when the US blows it up and (c) If they still complain the US can give them some busines to make up for the loss.
Ultimately Russia has invaded Ukraine, this is not a special operation, it is a war, even though they still call it a special operation. It has been proven that Russia has commited war crimes and we do not know how far Putin will take this war. Will he attack other countries ? certainly he will undermine elections throughout Europe as he has done already for decades. We do not believe he will attack a Nato country and therefore it is recommended that more countries join Nato / or aspire to join Nato, ASAP.
there, how am I doing?
Is there actual evidence though?
Or anecdotal evidence?
Quote (Djunior @ Feb 20 2023 09:42am)
# The collective West has been quietly training / equipping Ukraine since 2014.
# Massive additional mobilization in Ukraine since Feb 2022.
# Massive billions upon billions additional aid to Ukraine since Feb 2022.
# Additional training of Ukrainian troops abroad, many additional weapons systems sent.
Results: Ukraine burned through 7 years worth of javelin production in one year time, the same likely applies to NLAWS. Ukraine burned through NATO artillery stockpiles. NATO production can't even keep up, Stoltenberg recently admitted that.
Russia seems to have plenty ammo while mindless drones like you are under the impression that Russia gas station is running out of everything, economy crashed due to sanctions, all Russians fled the country and Vlad died of cancer at least a couple times.
In reality Russia is the largest nation on Earth, abundant resources, 6K nukes and an authoritarian regime that does whatever it takes to grind Ukraine into the ground despite NATO's best efforts.
/
While alot of what you said I wouldn't disagree with. I will pushback and reiterate the point I am making.
What you describe as "NATOS best efforts" and NATOs actual full capability are very, very different things.
What the krembot above me called "defeat all of NATO in a proxy war" is not a statement based in reality.
If Putin crossed NATOS redline and initiated a conventional strike against Russia. The Russian miltary presence in Ukraine would cease to exist within a matter of hours.
Russia has every potential to turn what has been a military catastrophe into an acceptable outcome; Through use of grinding attritional tactics and lack with a lack of concern for the human cost.
Let's not conflate that point with the idea that the Russian military is somehow a match for NATO.
This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Feb 20 2023 06:07am