First of all, he repeats the same talking points about 2 or 3 times within this one statement. Sounds like a broken record. Even his official statement, which he and his advisors had hours to carefully draft and flesh out, sounds like an incoherent, rambling mess.

Second, he basically acknowledges the failure of his decision to give Erdogan green light for this invasion, and the attempt at saving face is pitiful. ("Withdraw troops from northeast syria, but redeploy them to southern syria were they can do fuck all".)

Third, he sounds like a clueless moron: "I gave Erdogan green light on the invasion, withdrew the remaining US troops which stood in his way, but oh no, his forces are committing all kinds of atrocities that everyone but me saw coming from a mile away - better sanction the shit out of him real quick, because sanctions are the only approach to foreign policy that I know".





Imho, the way Trump and his administration have handled this issue is their first HUGE foreign policy blunder.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Oct 14 2019 03:43pm

What's the purpose of the sanctions? What are we trying to achieve in Syria? Trump's messaging is all over the place... so I'd appreciate you making it clear for me. I just see incoherence.

The purpose of sanctions are to dissuade/punish Turkey for going after the Kurds. I don't get it, in the beginning you were mad we were pulling out and not doing something about it and now you're mad he did something about it?

You don't like the economic sanctions, so what do you want Trump to do then?

Imposing sanctions is the right move in this fucked up situation, but it would be delusional to think that they will change Erodgan's mind; and it doesnt change the fact that we should never have been in such a bad situation to begin with.

I agree that it won't actually change anything but it's more of a symbolic gesture by us that we don't approve. Germany restricted weapon exports to Turkey, we do this. That's the thing about living in a very complex world, when a nation is dead set on doing something not much the outside world can do to stop them. No amount of sanctions would stop Turkey from displacing the YPG off their border. The risk that those Kurds unifying and arming Kurd insurrections in southeastern Turkey is a greater risk to their national security than anything we can do to them.

Why should the Turks be punished for what they did, and how does punishing them serve our interests in the region?

If we're going to abandon the Kurds, it's not like slapping sanctions on some figures in Turkey makes that right. It won't make our allies forget what Trump did, and considering the Kurds partnered with Assad, Turkey is going to be restrained by those forces, not sanctions. I just don't see the point. If Trump wants to pull out of Syria and let Russia, Iran, Assad, and Turkey work it out, why bother alienating Turkey for doing something that Trump basically allowed them to do? It seems like a half measure designed to ease the political bleeding here at home... because this is one issue Republicans are actually willing to criticize him on.

And if ISIS is mostly defeated and the Kurds partnered with Assad, why keep troops in southern Syria? There's no coherent strategy.

I find it extremely hard to believe that Erdogan would defy the United States and invade Northern Syria if we were firmly against it. The reality is we weren't... Trump called for pulling out in December. We all know he doesn't want us there.

And one of the best White House reporters came out yesterday saying Trump's been calling Erdogan's bluff since 2017:
https://www.axios.com/trump-erdogan-turkey-syria-invasion-bluff-fc761d8f-e33b-473b-8ece-d0b8b3a51f26.html

I guess this explains some of the disconnect in reactions. You think Erdogan would've invaded whether the president held firm or not... and I think the vast majority of people covering this issue disagree.

I get annoyed when people keep using using words like abandoned. The Kurds are not a 4 year old child needing constant care or they'll starve to death. They survived as an ethnicity for hundreds of years and they will continue to survive, stop projecting your westerncentric view thinking we are in any way responsible for them. I was talking to a friend of mine from India the other day and he was telling me how he thinks the US all too often feels entitled to tell other countries what to do, honestly most foreigners don't like US interventions and have a negative perspective. It's not our job or place to go to regions of the world and dictate how the chips fall.

The point of our sanctions or the Germans cutting weapon exports is to let the Turks know we disapprove. Our allies completely understand why we are doing what we are doing and they would be doing the exact same thing in our shoes, in fact they are with their troop withdrawals as well. This is not about Trump really, it's being spun this way but it's not.

'Trump allowed them to do' you sound dumb saying that. I keep asking what you guys would want to happen and no one is responding. Would you have wanted Trump to send in the F-35s and start bombing the Turks as they were advancing on the Kurds? No? Then what?



What does 'staying firm' actually mean?

lol "defy" the US. As if we rule the world. As if sovereign states need to ask permission on what they find threatening and need to run it by us before they do something.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Oct 14 2019 07:33pm

That's your habit here... getting annoyed at word choices. What do you call it when an ally of ours gets told we're pulling out with almost no notice? The ally that helped us fight ISIS for years. Betrayal is another useful word to describe the situation.

How does showing our disapproval through sanctions help the situation?

Trump showed weakness, Erdogan said he would go in, and Trump blinked.



Are you really saying you think if Trump told Erdogan that our troops aren't leaving and he can't invade, he would advance on American positions? You don't think the American president has the power to prevent that from happening?

That's the problem here... we're not even dealing with the same reality. You think Trump's weakness on Syria and his prior bluffing isn't the reason Erdogan pushed him over on this issue.

I take issue with your word choice because it's literally the exact buzzwords the msm uses which leads me to believe that honestly you have done little critical thinking and are just reciting their points.

The problem is your incredibly ignorant of what these realities mean. Turkey has the largest Kurd population in the world at about 15 million. The next 3 countries combined, Iran, Iraq and Syria don't have that many. Allowing a strong Kurd force to post up on their border is a potential existential threat to their territorial integrity long term. Kurds want a home nation, there is almost no scenario in which southeastern Turkey is not considered part of that homeland if it were to happen. Outside of war there was no stopping Turkey because to them this is a massive deal.

So no, the only way we stop Turkey is with threat of war and honestly that's a price too high for me to want to defend the Kurds. Trump and the Euros pulled out because intelligent people understand this reality and there is no bluffs to be called. Turkey was coming, you either defend the Kurds through force or gtfo the way.