Quote (bogie160 @ 6 Feb 2023 17:50)
What they have in common is that the experts you rely on made egregious errors in all four. It is a poor argument to say that "the experts know what they're doing", because no one should be convinced that that's the case.
So previous errors in judgement (including re: the Taliban a year or so ago) are irrelevant because this is an even bigger foreign policy crisis? How do you figure?
By dropping language focused on the "collapse" of the Russian Federation and an obsession with taking back lands lost in 2014. Russia's goals in the war are still maximalist, the goal is to stabilize Ukraine. I'm not sure where you read that I'm blaming the West for the war, I find conversations on who started what to be very tedious.
Whether they've been liberated or not is besides the point. Russia's influence in the country is centered in the south and east. Sympathizers were critical to Russia's initial seizing of Kherson, and before that to Russia's current presence in Crimea and the Donbass. It goes without saying that the east and south of the country is far more pro-Russian than the west and north. I'm not sure why Ukraine would want to hold onto the Donbass at this point, it will remain a constant source of irritation and remain a vehicle for Russian interference in Ukrainian affairs.
The Russian regime is not going to willingly choose annihilation. They will do everything in their power to prevent it. What about that do you think is controversial?
You need to move beyond the dichotomy of pro-Russian and pro-Ukraine. You can support Ukraine without support maximalist Ukrainian goals. We ignore Russia's nuclear capacity at our own peril. There is a fine line between allowing countries to do whatever they want, and actively pushing a country to go nuclear.
In my opinion, you're too wrapped up in moral considerations to consider this rationally.
All this is deeply dishonest:
- It is not about "experts know what they're doing" but "experts know more than you, me, or political leaders".
- Afghanistan is hardly an argument regarding what is happening now. ie: Talibans were hidding in the mountains: there's not much mountains in Ukraine.
And i will pass on things like Drones or mutual spying/intelligence. Almost same language spoken. I think it's just wrong to push on comparisons in-between Afghanistan and Ukraine/Russia.
- Russia to "stabilize" Ukraine ? Imagine the constant guerrilla for years. You just ruled yourself out: i will not continue the discussion but thanks for the inputs really.