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Jun 13 2020 05:58pm
Quote (GLYC123 @ Jun 13 2020 07:40pm)
Yep. No/few protections. Why would you risk joining a job field that places you in dangerous and stressful situations regularly? And, doesn't even pay that well. Mandatory overtime, rotating shifts, court+training on your days off, death threats towards you + your family, media/public that automatically hate you for wearing the uniform

Eventually you will have to use physical force. Anybody who has ever worked in any type of Security Job/Law Enforcement position with consistent human interaction with conflicts know that. No matter how good your deescalation and communication skills are. And, people can file a lawsuit on you outside of even physical force situations. Too much liability, despite even all of your actions having good intentions.

There needs to be some type of union and protections for sure. I realize it will likely get reformed/replaced with something. But the people who think this stuff should just be removed, they dont get it in my opinion.


Yeah cops have an incredibly difficult job. Just the diversity of things they have to deal with is like no other profession. I honestly feel that if the critics worked as a city cops for a year they would be much more sympathetic.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Jun 13 2020 05:58pm
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Jun 13 2020 06:14pm
Quote (Kayeto @ Jun 13 2020 06:41pm)
In general, I'm pro-union. The new reformed public security force can develop a new union to protect its interests. But we can't get to that point until we break down the walls that are currently blocking reform.

The current union is a barrier. The new one (that doesn't exist right now but will be built in November) can be part of a successful system.


What is it about police unions that is bad today but would be reformed under a union for the "public security force"?

I'm genuinely curious. It seems like a question we probably should be able to answer before we defund the police and break up their union.
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Jun 13 2020 06:50pm
Quote (Kayeto @ 13 Jun 2020 18:20)
Unfortunately, the system as it stands is resistant to reform. Defunding it and busting the union is a necessary first step towards reform.

there’s a good amount of truth in this. but to bust a union? a by nature liberal institution instituted to defend the worker? how does this go then
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Jun 13 2020 06:52pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jun 13 2020 08:14pm)
What is it about police unions that is bad today but would be reformed under a union for the "public security force"?

I'm genuinely curious. It seems like a question we probably should be able to answer before we defund the police and break up their union.


Their clientele. They would be representing a group of people who aren't trying to protect their institutionalized racism. Kinda like how the NFL players union represents a group of people that are not trying to preserve their freedom to engage in institutionalized racism.
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Jun 13 2020 07:18pm
Quote (Kayeto @ Jun 13 2020 08:52pm)
Their clientele. They would be representing a group of people who aren't trying to protect their institutionalized racism. Kinda like how the NFL players union represents a group of people that are not trying to preserve their freedom to engage in institutionalized racism.


How are the police engaged in the protection of institutional racism? How would this change with a new "public security force"? Please reference specific examples.
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Jun 13 2020 07:22pm
Quote (excellence @ 14 Jun 2020 02:50)
there’s a good amount of truth in this. but to bust a union? a by nature liberal institution instituted to defend the worker? how does this go then


Isnt there any ongoing political realignment, with the Democrats increasingly becoming a coalition between privileged limousine liberals and wokeness-focused minorities while the Republicans are increasingly becoming the party of "middle america" both in a geographical and a social hierarchy sense?
If(!) this realignment persists after 2020 (and it might not), then it would only be logical for this "new" Democratic party to abandon old, predominantly white and pointedly unwoke unions.
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Jun 13 2020 07:40pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jun 13 2020 09:18pm)
How are the police engaged in the protection of institutional racism?


Bob Kroll

Quote (bogie160 @ Jun 13 2020 09:18pm)
How would this change with a new "public security force"?


My suggestion: http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=83134458&f=119&p=559239598

This post was edited by Kayeto on Jun 13 2020 07:41pm
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Jun 13 2020 07:45pm
Quote (Kayeto @ Jun 13 2020 09:40pm)






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Jun 13 2020 07:50pm
Quote (Kayeto @ Jun 13 2020 09:40pm)


I'm not sure what Bob Kroll is supposed to mean. Is he going to be barred from this new security force?

College athletes are already able to apply for police jobs. Why do you think they don't?
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Jun 13 2020 07:51pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jun 13 2020 09:50pm)
I'm not sure what Bob Kroll is supposed to mean. Is he going to be barred from this new security force?


Obviously. Removing people like him is the main goal of the reform. No one from the previous department will be part of the new one.

Quote (bogie160 @ Jun 13 2020 09:50pm)
College athletes are already able to apply for police jobs. Why do you think they don't?


because the pay is not high enough to make it appealing to them. They are above the job. That's why my suggestion involves raising the job to their level.
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