Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Feb 3 2023 12:31pm)

Russia / China / USA ...... :lol:

Quote (ferdia @ Feb 3 2023 04:32pm)

No. -- OK
But are you saying the US installed the government in Ukraine? -- No. but note that i have answered the question which was framed by you (if framed another way I would have said Yes).
And if so, are you comparing that to the Russisn invasion of Ukraine? N/A (as No, above)

Would they be comparable "forces" to you? - Yes. from a wide lens this is comparable, while accepting the western model is softer (in most? views).

Another valid point I think is Russias propping up of Bashad in Syria. If you want to say that Russia appeased NATO. <- this is not a question.
Russia acts in its own self interest, rightly so. - As does the US.
But at the detriment of Ukrainians? Not right. - As does the US.

in summary this war that has been created can not be viewed as being beneficial to ukraine. If the arguement at the end of all this is "ukraine is now free" then the counter arguement would be "at what cost" and i do not agree with "any cost was worth freedom" when the end result could have been more gradually achieved without this massive loss of life.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Feb 3 2023 05:04pm)

So you don't think the US installed the Ukraine government.
But if they did, you think that is comparable to Russias invasion of Ukraine?
Right, ok.
Obviously disagree with that and would go as far to say as that is mental.

My original point was that appeasing Russia over Ukraine would be a terrible mistake.
Such as Crimea and 2014. You appease aggression and you get more aggression.

Quote (ferdia @ 4 Feb 2023 01:08)

the finer points:

it is my view that the US was directly involved in shaping or manouvering the Ukraine government.
where the end result is the taking of a chess piece (which is what ukraine is) then yes it comparable. In laymans terms, russia saw the piece as belonging to it, and the US captured it.
this is viewing the situation from a large step back. how is this position mental? surely you understand the concept of sphere of influence ?

Crimea was in Russia's sphere of influence and not yesterday, today or tomorrow will Russia countenance that position changing. To use your words, Russia will not appease the west in giving up Crimea. (i accept your position is "but crimea was never russia's in the first place" - i can accept your position but i dont have to agree with it).

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Feb 3 2023 05:11pm)

I don't think he understand.....

Quote (ferdia @ 3 Feb 2023 18:08)

the finer points:

it is my view that the US was directly involved in shaping or manouvering the Ukraine government.
where the end result is the taking of a chess piece (which is what ukraine is) then yes it comparable. In laymans terms, russia saw the piece as belonging to it, and the US captured it.
this is viewing the situation from a large step back. how is this position mental? surely you understand the concept of sphere of influence ?

Crimea was in Russia's sphere of influence and not yesterday, today or tomorrow will Russia countenance that position changing. To use your words, Russia will not appease the west in giving up Crimea. (i accept your position is "but crimea was never russia's in the first place" - i can accept your position but i dont have to agree with it).

Quote (ferdia @ 4 Feb 2023 01:13)

lets see his response. dont jump to conclusions.

Quote (Meanwhile @ Feb 3 2023 05:14pm)

How surprising that countries who endured the soviet oppression want to boycott Olympics if Russian athletes are participating, even under neutral flag. Estonia, Lithuania...
IMHO If I had to take a side i would refuse Russian athletes because of the doping history.

https://www.reuters.com/article/sport-doping-russia-timeline-idUSKBN28R2HR
Not sure they can correct themselves.



They want all Ukraine, by force. Not sure what you can't understand here. Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Syria ... LOL... Such a TRASH.

Quote (ferdia @ 3 Feb 2023 18:18)

Russia does not appear to want all of Ukraine, just half of it.
Where do you see me not understanding something, and I will give you my view
Your not wrong re: those countries being messed up.

Quote (Meanwhile @ Feb 3 2023 05:25pm)

Murdering the actual government, all political opposition, then put a puppet in charge. Next step is let it slowly join back the "good old" USSR/Empire.
Sorry Ferdia but Putin want ALL Ukraine... Moldavia too... After that: to continue to destroy nearby democracies like they tried to do with Ukraine.