Iraq all over again except it's at our doorstep and the people suffering aren't moslems.

Chinese and russians are doing the dirty things now, and it's easy to explain: they don't have public voices exposing and asking about the crimes.
On their own territory and in Africa too. Typically: French army can't do the same kind of job for dictators like torture/rape on civilians as easily than wagner: Public opinions in democraties....
So the most horrible dictators prefer russians. In the same way they also prefer chinese corruption: more money, less questions, bigger loot on forbidden ressources, wild life, environment destruction.

So that's it, and you can pick up a small example done 40 or 65 years ago and claim it's all the same tho... I would not be surprised by this delusion.
China and Russia will always be worse. If they had free path in the 60' they probably would have enslaved or exterminated the whole continent.

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Feb 3 2023 06:46am

I don't agree with what NATO have done in the middle east; Does it make what Putin is doing in Europe ok?

I answered your original question, you're derailing again. None of what happened is ok but they happened/ are happening.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Feb 3 2023 07:03am

You are trying to build up a false narrative:

I was laughing about your source because of its claims in february 2022. The Russian second offensive is known since a while, at least since the mobilizations growing rumors in december.

I will just ask to stop being obsessed by me because of "self owns" like this one: https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=92659217&f=119&p=637084086

Sorry for your loss... Btw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Macgregor lol seriously ?

You didn't answer it? Read it again

The guy is a veteran tank commander, and he's talking about Russian mobilization, buildup, numbers, state of Ukrainian army and so on. And he was completely right, the Ukrainian army would've collapsed if not for massive Western support.

Have you noticed that Ukraine's economy, industry and power infrastructure is completely destroyed by now? The West needs to provide unlimited support for Ukraine, if it were to stop Ukraine is dead.

That's not a false narrative, it's reality, I can't help that it triggers you so much, lol.

im not quite sure of your definition of force. what do you call the US installation of the government in ukraine?

and are you both talking about the same thing? i am confused looking at your back and forth. however:

Meanwhile - it is clear from reports that there is a degree of negotiation occuring between the US and Russia. Either re: tanks or long range weapons or the 20% story. What is your view on this having re-read what you posted above "What i don't understand is that we still find people here who think that "negotiation" works". Does this not undermine somewhat your argument ? the 20% of Ukraine to Russia story related to Biden (has this been proven true, does anyone know?). I know appeasement is not your argument but if its true that the US offered 20% of Ukraine to Russia, what is your view on this? negotiation is exactly meant for situations like this - to find a way out. I am not saying its easy. all life is about negotiation to one degree or another.

Djunior - im not sure what it is you are arguing about with meanwhile, ukraine's economy is rekt, and yes they are on life support and yes they would collapse without western aid. (i dont think meanwhile disagreed with this, or rather, i dont think this was his arguement ?)

its a bit late to be still quoting people's (wrong views) 1 year later. people can have views but not all views are facts. they are opinions until they become fact or events overtake them and they become historic conjecture. i would not harp on about it with "i told you so". or well, i guess you could do it 2-3 times, but seriously, let it ago after that, maybe ? I would not bash someone just because they have a different view, or because their view proved wrong.

if you want to make things relevant to today, you can both try to determine what will happen in the next 3 months. on condition you are only allowed to say "i told you so" 3 times over the next 12 months.

This post was edited by ferdia on Feb 3 2023 08:45am

It's about him trashing legitimate sources, I already pointed it out to you. Now's he's got to admit the Russian buildup is real and actually he already did, see his quote below.

The thing about Ukraine's economy is something that MacGregor has repeatedly pointed out and he's right. You also think he's right, you just posted you agree with that.



This post was edited by Djunior on Feb 3 2023 08:49am

ok but dont hold on to it like a dog with a bone, move on !



the term legitimate can be a grey area. its like the biden story re: 20% - it is being reported as false by "legitimate" sources but there is probably a few grains of truth in it. there is no harm in quoting or referencing sources but again, no 2 sources will have the same view of the same story, and you can have the same story told 10 different ways, with all of them being true.

This post was edited by ferdia on Feb 3 2023 09:10am