I think Russia might be willing to give up eastern Ukraine if it was allowed to become "independent". It would still essentially be controlled by Russia but would also act as a sort of buffer state between Russia and Ukraine, maybe a third party country could send peacekeepers to the area. That would be close to the previous status quo, and create some space between Russian and Ukrainian forces so they aren't eyeing eachother on the border.

Joining NATO and Russia invading Ukraine are the same thing? I would obviously disagree with that.
I do see where you are leading your argument but its a stretch to compare Ukraine/West's position to Mexico or native Americans, don't you think?



Glad you've come around, finally comrade!

- Inside the battle for Bakhmut, where Ukraine's tech-savvy troops say Russia treats men like meat

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-war-russia-news-inside-battle-for-bakhmut-drones-vs-trench-warfare/

You disagree and spin on some uber ridiculous "Russia is trustable and ready for peace" ?

- France send 12 more Caesars

Fuck Putin and his zombies.

...

I stand by what I said

this next piece came via some hot girl in a bikini. well, she used to be hot until her face got plastic surgery. she also seems to like 20 year olds.

anyway:

(Kyiv, January 31, 2023) – Ukraine should investigate its military’s apparent use of thousands of rocket-fired antipersonnel landmines in and around the eastern city of Izium when Russian forces occupied the area, Human Rights Watch said today.

Human Rights Watch documented numerous cases in which rockets carrying PFM antipersonnel mines, also called “butterfly mines” or “petal mines,” were fired into Russian-occupied areas near Russian military facilities. Ukraine is a state party to the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty, which prohibits any use of antipersonnel mines.

Russian forces have used antipersonnel mines in multiple areas across Ukraine, including victim-activated booby traps, since its full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022. Human Rights Watch previously published three reports documenting Russian forces’ use of antipersonnel landmines in Ukraine in 2022.

“Ukrainian forces appear to have extensively scattered landmines around the Izium area, causing civilian casualties and posing an ongoing risk,” said Steve Goose, Arms Division director at Human Rights Watch. “Russian forces have repeatedly used antipersonnel mines and committed atrocities across the country, but this doesn’t justify Ukrainian use of these prohibited weapons.”

====

this reminds me of that kevin bacon movie where he had a wardrobe and personality change in order to fight against those that harmed his family. be careful how far you go for revenge as you might suddenly find yourself down a hole you cant climb out of (and all your family not living well).

This post was edited by ferdia on Jan 31 2023 09:58am

1) Meanwhile reported it as he always does.

2) Dizzy quoted Meanwhile, not me



3) You forgot to reply:



...





Did you read the rest of that sentence? Ukraine doesn't want to negotiate.

I was just quickly looking for people that seemed involved in a discussion I wasn't following to give them an update from Norlander.

I didn't feel your reply addressed the criticism about Neville Chamberlain, who appeased Hitler, who didn't stop taking what he wanted until someone made him stop. Your position that we should just let Russia run roughshod over Ukraine "to save lives" is peak Neville Chamberlain.

Something not reported in MSM:
Ukrainian army illegally recruits Russian speaking Ukrainians with predjudice then sends them to the fronts as cannon fodder. They also attack eastern Ukraine without a care for civilian casualties because those areas are mostly populated by Russian speaking Ukrainians.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Jan 31 2023 10:58am

To my mind, Ukraine appears very willing to fight to the bitter end, win or lose. Even if they lose I expect they will perpetuate resistance for some time and i expect loss of life to be collossal. This is probably quite hard for some people to accept. Being Irish, i can relate to this mindset of resistance against greater odds noting our long history with our nearest neighbor (england) who was at one time the greatest country in the world (and probably still view irish people as an inferior species, bless). The scale of war here is by a magnitude much larger noting the sheer size of the actors involved.

Ukraine to my mind is highly unlikely to have made these moves in the last 20 years if they were not encouraged and supported to do so. They continue to be supported and the war hangs in the balance. no one knows how this war is going to end. from a humanitarian standpoint it would be better if russia had a complete victory tomorrow as this WOULD prevent the loss of life tomorrow. However from an ethical standpoint it gets very murky knowing Ukraine were groomed into this position and therefore shared responsibility for their fate must be distributed. If russia had a total victory ukraine would be crippled for decades. I dont want that and no one (west or russian) should want that. everyone should want a ukraine that is functioning and prospering. in this regard a mediate peace treaty to my mind is the best result we should hope for.

No country wants poor neighbors. you want a functioning government beside you sothat you can work with them. The US exports its version of democracy to the world, presumably because it sees this as the most stable form of government. broadly this is not a terrible product but there is a difference between a carrot and a stick, and sometimes its better to do things slowly then what we have seen here. by slowly i mean (as i have always said) better for ukraine to have taken decades to remove itself from russia then to accelerate it and force the issue. we dont live in an ideal world and idealists at a certain point really need to have a degree of pragmatism, which appears to be wholly lacking in ukraine.

From a geopolitical stand point it is in the wests interests for ukraine to win. this has not changed and will not change. the only thing that trumps this position is averting a global war.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jan 31 2023 11:06am