Neville's gonna Neville.

I'm glad you think I'm your friend, because I never think about you at all
In terms of manufacturing artillery shells, Russia can outstrip NATO currently. Artillery is what the Russian army does; NATO didn't intend to fight 20th century wars in the 21st century.
Pinch yourself if you think NATO and Russia/China capabilities are even remotely close.

I'd wager dollars to donuts China is far more lethal than Russia.

This conflict could've been entirely avoided.



Come back when the Vietnam / Afghanistan wars are won and both countries are turned into functioning democracies

Dumb shits gonna be dumb

That was sarcasm if you didn't get it you are extremely daft, nobody in this particular thread thinks much about you at all.
The reason why they even reply you is simply because they need to pass time and get some Reeeeee response from you.

You don't have anything constructive to bring on to the table. That being said, you are a byproduct of ideology and herd instincts.

i remember recommending the movie charlie wilson's war. tam hanks. this conversation reminds me of it.


ill bite!

ending the war looks like this:

ukraine cedes (alot of) land to russia and russia is satisfied that its borders / long term interests are secure.




This post was edited by ferdia on Jan 31 2023 07:51am

Yeah, I think we should be careful about escalating the war into WW3. China is to Russia what is the combined west to Ukraine. Russia wouldn't endur sanctions that long if it weren't for support from China and their "allias".

This post was edited by babun1024 on Jan 31 2023 07:53am

a clarification :

a peace deal at this point would probably look like this:

Ukraine accepts the contested land captured is now Russian (what Russia currently occupies or less *but critically: crimea stays with Russia*) and Russia accepts Ukraine membership of Nato. There has to be a bit of give and take.

i accept zelensky would probably have to resign in such a scenario, or have been removed beforehand - but there is no indication anything like this will happen. ultimately there is no sign of a deal and there wont be to my mind until something radical changes on the field (the complete destruction of the ukraine army or alternatively the west giving ukraine long range weapons / or something, which would reverse russian gains).

This post was edited by ferdia on Jan 31 2023 08:13am

Wrong

In 2008 NATO decided to welcome Ukrainian future NATO membership and when the conflict broke out NATO decided to fight a proxy war against Russia using Ukrainians to do the fighting and NATO decided to say shit like "defeat and publicly humiliate Russia".

This war is being fought on Russia's doorstep, thousand mile front or more, what did you expect, no artillery meatgrinder? lol

Now the Ukrainian army is slowly being ground into a pulp while NATO and people like you seem to give zero shits. You're the one that should be sent to those trenches

This post was edited by Djunior on Jan 31 2023 08:02am

I have nothing constructive to bring? You just dedicated an entire post to attacking my character
That is as equally ironic as it is pathetic; Like I said before, I don't think about you at all, your clearly thinking about me a considerable amount.



Sounds alot like revisionism. Can't you construct your argument for what ending the war TODAY looks like? After all you deride extending the war; Or is it just the supporting Ukraine part that your draws your derision?
After all this conflict has been going on since Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014, alongside Russia's support for separatists in eastern Ukraine.

I understand that its easier to sweep those realities under the rug and foghorn about "NATO expansion"



I also think we should be careful about escalating into WW3. China is not really to Russia what the West is to Ukraine. China is heavily dependent on the US navy and free global shipping lanes.
The wests support for Ukraine far outstrips China's support for Russia.
If anything, Russian losses in Ukraine only benefit China overall.



Would make sense. Until the military landscape shifts decisively either way, I think its all speculative.
I'd also see eastern Ukraine being a massive insurgency burden to Russia, if that were to happen.
Also that holding Crimea, without holding a "buffer" zone for Crimea, is extremely difficult.

Not to say it could never happen of course.