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Jun 11 2020 09:27pm
Quote (Santara @ Jun 11 2020 11:04pm)
83 pages. And I ask, because I'm pretty sure the coroners didn't say "heart attack induced by drug use."




Well ofc, the news items concerning G. Floyd's death seem to be changing daily. All I know for sure, it that the article in question was NOT primarily about the coroners reports.
I'm not even sure it was in this topic. If I had the link, I would ofc, produce it. Hell, just the ME's report seems to have changed in the last week or so.

At first the ME only said, drug abuse, cardio vascular disease. After a quick Google, the ME has now decided death by asphyxiation, which he refused to claim a week ago.

Unless we find the post made here on PaRD about a week ago...all the current news items concerning this have been politicized no end.
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Jun 11 2020 09:35pm
Quote (Ghot @ Jun 11 2020 08:27pm)
Well ofc, the news items concerning G. Floyd's death seem to be changing daily. All I know for sure, it that the article in question was NOT primarily about the coroners reports.
I'm not even sure it was in this topic. If I had the link, I would ofc, produce it. Hell, just the ME's report seems to have changed in the last week or so.

At first the ME only said, drug abuse, cardio vascular disease. After a quick Google, the ME has now decided death by asphyxiation, which he refused to claim a week ago.

Unless we find the post made here on PaRD about a week ago...all the current news items concerning this have been politicized no end.


Perhaps you just remembered incorrectly.
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Jun 11 2020 09:41pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 11 2020 11:18pm)
So the coroner has the last word even though the coroners disagree.

Yep, that's about your level of understanding


Extraordinary accusations require extraordinary evidence.

There is no reason to doubt the country examiner, nor any reason to trust an autopsy requested by an understandably biased party over that of the country examiner.

In any case, both came to the same underlying conclusion that it was homicide. That seems like a tremendously poor way to "get your buddies off", although I don't think anyone is seriously accusing the medical examiner of falsifying an autopsy outside of fringe protestors and internet conspiracy theorists.
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Jun 11 2020 10:08pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jun 11 2020 11:41pm)
Extraordinary accusations require extraordinary evidence.

There is no reason to doubt the country examiner, nor any reason to trust an autopsy requested by an understandably biased party over that of the country examiner.

In any case, both came to the same underlying conclusion that it was homicide. That seems like a tremendously poor way to "get your buddies off", although I don't think anyone is seriously accusing the medical examiner of falsifying an autopsy outside of fringe protestors and internet conspiracy theorists.


He was the same guy who performed the autopsy on Michael Brown. He's a fuckwit for sure.
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Jun 12 2020 12:36am
^Thor123422 ^Ghot ^Santara ^Skinned ^EndlessSky

Here's the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's report, again:
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf

afaik that's the only coroner who actually performed an autopsy, ie, only one who actually had toxicology labs or cut into him and performed a physical examination. The results are extremely detailed and thorough, with measurements and recorded observations. We can only guess on what type of voodoo or soothingsaying ritual Michael Baden used in his procedure or lack thereof, but I'm pretty sure at this point all he did was watch the video on youtube to come to his 'conclusions'. Every single quote I've seen from Baden has been purely speculative about how a knee to the neck could plausibly inhibit breathing, nevermind that the video showed Floyd talking and moving his head for several minutes. One quote from the AP shows how ridiculous their autopsy claim was:
https://apnews.com/d41cdf6cefbb3e5603a28e6dc07f9589
"Baden and Wilson acknowledged on a conference call with reporters that they didn’t have access to the tissue samples that the medical examiner kept that might have given more information on his health. Nor did they have their own toxicology results yet."
so they basically didn't have access to... anything? Were they even even physically present in a room with the body?

anyway the real autopsy lays out whats been repeated several times in this thread: He had a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system (enough to put a normal person into a coma without any other drugs, and well above the polysubstance lethal threshold), he had 75% blockage in his left coronal artery, 90% in his right coronal artery (as severe as heart disease can be before you drop dead). He had a left ventricular hypertrophy so severe it was 1.2:0.4 mm wall thickness (normal is 0.5:0.5), his heart was an astounding 540 grams (normal adult male is 300g, while ~510 was the upper limit for his extremely large height/weight). Severe hypertension, traces of meth from prior use (not active at time of death), caffeine, marijuana (cannabinoids) and tobacco (Cotinine) and Covid-19 and sickle cell anemia. Notably, the examination looks for and finds no signs of any life threatening injury or any of the telltale markers of asphyxia or strangulation or blunt force trauma.

Quote
III. No life-threatening injuries identified
A. No facial, oral mucosal, or conjunctival petechiae (note: petechiae are the burst capillaries associated with vascular pressure in deaths from asphyxia or extreme strain like weightlifting, heavy coughing, childbirth, etc
B. No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal structures
C. No scalp soft tissue, skull, or brain injuries
D. No chest wall soft tissue injuries, rib fractures (other than a single rib fracture from CPR), vertebral column injuries, or visceral injuries
E. Incision and subcutaneous dissection of posterior and lateral neck, shoulders, back, flanks, and buttocks negative for occult trauma
....
NECK: Layer by layer dissection of the anterior strap muscles of
the neck discloses no areas of contusion or hemorrhage within
the musculature. The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are
intact. The larynx is lined by intact mucosa. The thyroid is
symmetric and red-brown, without cystic or nodular change. The
tongue is free of bite marks, hemorrhage, or other injuries.
The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of
hemorrhage


Do you guys think that Medical Examiner has ever labeled a death as a homicide without finding any evidence supporting a homicide, before, let alone in an examination that ruled out life threatening injury in every way?
And on that note, if the ME had labeled the death natural causes or drug abuse, do you think his house would still be standing today?

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jun 12 2020 12:40am
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Jun 12 2020 01:26am
^Goomshill

Nice work, Doc. :D
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Jun 12 2020 02:07am
https://twitter.com/maxnesterak/status/1271186315476860928

footage from inside the "Free hotel" occupied by 200 homeless people in Minneapolis after the George Floyd riots, which was only evicted yesterday
https://www.startribune.com/homeless-evicted-from-former-mpls-hotel-after-drug-overdose/571135962/

The hotel immediately became a hotspot for drug activity, with free use and selling of drugs on site without any police around;

Quote
Unlike traditional homeless shelters, people who stayed at the hotel were allowed to bring drugs and alcohol on-site. Volunteer medics were focused on preventing overdoses and helping people access health services, rather than enforcing rules that would result in people being forced back onto the streets.
But some residents at the hotel said conditions had begun to spin out of control in recent days, with people injecting heroin and methamphetamine in the hallways, and fights breaking out at night. Volunteers became overwhelmed.
“It started out well, then descended into chaos,” said Jennie Taylor, who had a room on the second floor. “People got the message that this was a place where you could use drugs freely and that attracted the wrong crowd.”
Moon Beaumaster, another resident and volunteer at the hotel, agreed. “There were too many parasitic drug dealers who were using this place for the wrong reason,” she said.
The scene Tuesday outside the hotel was chaotic. Homeless people, some with children in tow, could be seen pouring out of the hotel lobby with their belongings piled in shopping carts. One angry resident was darting around the parking lot, screaming at people. Many sat on curbs and said they had nowhere to go.
In an emotional news conference outside the hotel, residents and volunteers decried the eviction and demanded permanent housing. A few people insisted they were not going to leave. Volunteers said many people likely would remain at the hotel overnight, as they continued to negotiate with the building owner.
“I don’t know if the owner has the power to evict us,” said Rosemary Fister, an organizer at the hotel, drawing cheers from residents.
The hotel is on a stretch near Lake Street that was badly damaged during last week’s protests, and it quickly became a sanctuary for people trying to avoid the riots. In less than 48 hours, the building had come to resemble a large homeless cooperative, with the residents handling many of its core functions, from serving meals to security. Organizers had raised over $100,000 on GoFundMe and carloads of donations poured in. Even people who were not staying at the hotel would drop in to get food, medical care and other services.


The drug den was only shut down after an overdose, and the hotel was completely trashed. All TVs were stolen, irons are gone, the vending machines looted, trash is everywhere, all sheets and bedding and furniture has been torn apart.
Given the cooperation and consent of the owner, its doubtful insurance will pay even one penny, nor does he deserve it.


also:



This post was edited by Goomshill on Jun 12 2020 02:11am
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Jun 12 2020 02:25am
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 12 2020 04:36pm)
^Thor123422 ^Ghot ^Santara ^Skinned ^EndlessSky

Here's the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's report, again:
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf

afaik that's the only coroner who actually performed an autopsy, ie, only one who actually had toxicology labs or cut into him and performed a physical examination. The results are extremely detailed and thorough, with measurements and recorded observations. We can only guess on what type of voodoo or soothingsaying ritual Michael Baden used in his procedure or lack thereof, but I'm pretty sure at this point all he did was watch the video on youtube to come to his 'conclusions'. Every single quote I've seen from Baden has been purely speculative about how a knee to the neck could plausibly inhibit breathing, nevermind that the video showed Floyd talking and moving his head for several minutes. One quote from the AP shows how ridiculous their autopsy claim was:
https://apnews.com/d41cdf6cefbb3e5603a28e6dc07f9589
"Baden and Wilson acknowledged on a conference call with reporters that they didn’t have access to the tissue samples that the medical examiner kept that might have given more information on his health. Nor did they have their own toxicology results yet."
so they basically didn't have access to... anything? Were they even even physically present in a room with the body?

anyway the real autopsy lays out whats been repeated several times in this thread: He had a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system (enough to put a normal person into a coma without any other drugs, and well above the polysubstance lethal threshold), he had 75% blockage in his left coronal artery, 90% in his right coronal artery (as severe as heart disease can be before you drop dead). He had a left ventricular hypertrophy so severe it was 1.2:0.4 mm wall thickness (normal is 0.5:0.5), his heart was an astounding 540 grams (normal adult male is 300g, while ~510 was the upper limit for his extremely large height/weight). Severe hypertension, traces of meth from prior use (not active at time of death), caffeine, marijuana (cannabinoids) and tobacco (Cotinine) and Covid-19 and sickle cell anemia. Notably, the examination looks for and finds no signs of any life threatening injury or any of the telltale markers of asphyxia or strangulation or blunt force trauma.



Do you guys think that Medical Examiner has ever labeled a death as a homicide without finding any evidence supporting a homicide, before, let alone in an examination that ruled out life threatening injury in every way?
And on that note, if the ME had labeled the death natural causes or drug abuse, do you think his house would still be standing today?


If the medical examiner watched the video he would know that floyd was held down until there was zero chance of getting help for any of those issues, that's homicide.
This is not ignoring a drowning person, this is pushing him away from the shore.
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Jun 12 2020 02:30am
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 12 2020 10:07am)
https://twitter.com/maxnesterak/status/1271186315476860928

footage from inside the "Free hotel" occupied by 200 homeless people in Minneapolis after the George Floyd riots, which was only evicted yesterday
https://www.startribune.com/homeless-evicted-from-former-mpls-hotel-after-drug-overdose/571135962/

The hotel immediately became a hotspot for drug activity, with free use and selling of drugs on site without any police around;



The drug den was only shut down after an overdose, and the hotel was completely trashed. All TVs were stolen, irons are gone, the vending machines looted, trash is everywhere, all sheets and bedding and furniture has been torn apart.
Given the cooperation and consent of the owner, its doubtful insurance will pay even one penny, nor does he deserve it.


also:

https://i.imgur.com/0yinn7G.jpg


Inb4 it's all the white man's fault

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Jun 12 2020 05:21am
Quote (Plaguefear @ Jun 12 2020 03:25am)
If the medical examiner watched the video he would know that floyd was held down until there was zero chance of getting help for any of those issues, that's homicide.
This is not ignoring a drowning person, this is pushing him away from the shore.


This.

Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 12 2020 01:36am)
^Thor123422 ^Ghot ^Santara ^Skinned ^EndlessSky

Here's the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's report, again:
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf

afaik that's the only coroner who actually performed an autopsy, ie, only one who actually had toxicology labs or cut into him and performed a physical examination. The results are extremely detailed and thorough, with measurements and recorded observations. We can only guess on what type of voodoo or soothingsaying ritual Michael Baden used in his procedure or lack thereof, but I'm pretty sure at this point all he did was watch the video on youtube to come to his 'conclusions'. Every single quote I've seen from Baden has been purely speculative about how a knee to the neck could plausibly inhibit breathing, nevermind that the video showed Floyd talking and moving his head for several minutes. One quote from the AP shows how ridiculous their autopsy claim was:
https://apnews.com/d41cdf6cefbb3e5603a28e6dc07f9589
"Baden and Wilson acknowledged on a conference call with reporters that they didn’t have access to the tissue samples that the medical examiner kept that might have given more information on his health. Nor did they have their own toxicology results yet."
so they basically didn't have access to... anything? Were they even even physically present in a room with the body?

anyway the real autopsy lays out whats been repeated several times in this thread: He had a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system (enough to put a normal person into a coma without any other drugs, and well above the polysubstance lethal threshold), he had 75% blockage in his left coronal artery, 90% in his right coronal artery (as severe as heart disease can be before you drop dead). He had a left ventricular hypertrophy so severe it was 1.2:0.4 mm wall thickness (normal is 0.5:0.5), his heart was an astounding 540 grams (normal adult male is 300g, while ~510 was the upper limit for his extremely large height/weight). Severe hypertension, traces of meth from prior use (not active at time of death), caffeine, marijuana (cannabinoids) and tobacco (Cotinine) and Covid-19 and sickle cell anemia. Notably, the examination looks for and finds no signs of any life threatening injury or any of the telltale markers of asphyxia or strangulation or blunt force trauma.



Do you guys think that Medical Examiner has ever labeled a death as a homicide without finding any evidence supporting a homicide, before, let alone in an examination that ruled out life threatening injury in every way?
And on that note, if the ME had labeled the death natural causes or drug abuse, do you think his house would still be standing today?


"Lethal dose" is a guideline, and doesn't take into consideration tolerance for the drug in question.

My great aunt who was alcoholic, once registered a BAC of .89% which is nearly double the threshold considered lethal.

From the ME report: "The pulmonary parenchyma is diffusely congested and edematous."

To wit: https://www.tasanet.com/Knowledge-Center/Articles/ArtMID/477/ArticleID/338920/Forensic-Analysis-of-Injury-and-Death-by-Asphyxiation#:~:text=There%20are%20non%2Dspecific%20physical,Petechiae%20are%20tiny%20hemorrhages.

Quote
Postmortem examinations, review of medical records, accident reports and photos taken at the scene are used to analyze and classify asphyxial deaths. There are non-specific physical signs used to attribute death to asphyxia. These include visceral congestion via dilation of the venous blood vessels and blood stasis, petechiae, cyanosis and fluidity of the blood. Petechiae are tiny hemorrhages. Blood vessels, usually small veins, are broken by high intravascular pressure. They can occur in various parts of the body, such as over the surface of the heart and organs, in the eye, the skin and the scalp. If a large area is affected, they may be termed ecchymoses and appear as bruising. Hemoglobin [Hb] in red blood cells turns from red to blue when it loses oxygen. This loss of oxygen is the reason veins are described as blue since they carry blood that has lost oxygen to the body's cells back to the lungs where it can be reoxygenated. As asphyxia progresses and more oxygen is depleted, a dark discoloration of the skin and tissues called cyanosis develops. Cyanotic tissue is described as blue, black or purplish in color. After death, changes in blood chemistry and the breakdown of clotting factors such as fibrin lower the viscosity of the blood; this is sometimes called 'fluidity'. The study of flow is called rheology, thus; those who specialize in the study of blood flow behavior are called rheologists or, more specifically, hemorheologists.


That congestion is the evidence of asphyxia.
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