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Jan 24 2023 09:38am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 24 2023 03:09pm)
"Ukraine’s deputy infrastructure minister, Vasyl Lozinskyi, has been detained and dismissed from his post for allegedly stealing $400,000 (£320,000) intended for purchasing aid,
including generators, according to Ukraine’s state anti-corruption detectives and prosecutors."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/23/ukraine-deputy-minister-sacked-for-alleged-theft-of-400000

"Several senior Ukrainian officials have resigned as President Volodymyr Zelensky begins a shake-up of personnel across his government.
A top adviser, four deputy ministers and five regional governors left their posts on Tuesday.
Their departures come as Ukraine launches a broad anti-corruption drive."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64383388

"Kyiv's allies can start training Ukrainian forces to use Leopard 2 battle tanks, Germany has said, raising hopes of a breakthrough in deliveries of the vehicles.
Germany confirmed it has received Poland's request to transfer 14 Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine and will urgently examine the application.
Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said he was counting on a "quick" response from Germany.
"I hope the reply from the German side will come quickly this time, because the Germans have been dragging their feet, dithering and behaving in a manner that is difficult to understand," he said on Tuesday."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/24/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news-leopard-tanks-germany-tymoshenko/

I believe people will tend to take the path of least resistance. Shame on Ukrainian officials who are accused of corruption if true; Well done to the Ukraine government for purging that kind of behavior.

Poland are piling the pressure on Scholz over the Leopard tanks. Germany has relented and allowed countries to begin training Ukrainians on the tanks; This could not lead to any tanks actually being sent, but is to avoid any added delay in the event of Scholz agreeing to send the hardware.

Well done to Poland for pursuing this vigorously. I've said I respect Scholz's right to consider the right choice for German people; I also think that Poland deals with their "nuclear fear" better than other countries. Perhaps owing in part to Poland's history, perhaps owing to its proximity to a powerful adversary like Russia and creating a "nothing to lose" attitude.
It is also true that indecision will cost Germany's reputation dearly. Not least among its allies and even in the Kremlin.


sir, the telegraph ? XD I hope you read it for the same reason why I do: know thine enemy. I am trying to come to terms with your signature of Mel and your reading of a conservative paper - and failing :)

I think its mad that some people or countries are questioning germany's reluctance to participate in a war in europe. if they want war so badly let them do it, on their own. in this regard its simpler to state the headline from your 3rd link:

"US 'leaning towards' sending Abrams tanks to Ukraine". That article suggests the US will make a tank announcement over the next 7 days.

no blow back, they want it done, they will do it.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jan 24 2023 09:52am
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Jan 24 2023 10:07am
Seems the situation is changing drastically ?

" The West is changing its strategy from defense and deterrence of Russia to a decisive offensive and victory for Ukraine", the Deputy Chairman of the Committee on National Security, Defense and Intelligence, the Head of the Permanent Delegation of Ukraine to the NATO PA Yehor Chernev.

"We met with the NATO Secretary General @jensstoltenberg who confirmed that our partners are moving from helping to defend against russia to supporting Ukraine's victory. So no one will negotiate with Russia anymore," the politician said

Or was it framed like that since the start, only to limit the impact on MSM ?

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Jan 24 2023 10:15am
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Jan 24 2023 10:13am
Quote (Djunior @ Jan 24 2023 08:38am)
You can posts quotes from articles without linking, like



I've already asked google but haven't found what you claimed so go ahead and post it pls

I did find this however:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy



This article by The Guardian points out that Zelensky won a landslide victory because he promised to deal with the oligarchs, not because he was elected on a mandate of peace and reconciliation.

Juicy details: Zelensky himself is hiding offshore wealth.

(btw ^said_aouita and ^fender should check the article, Ukrainian corruption / oligarchs, lol)

Edit: weird that ^babun1024 hasn't posted a source, wasn't that his claim?


So what? Are we changing the subject to comparing shady business deals by the russia/ukraine governments?

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Jan 24 2023 10:56am
Quote (ferdia @ Jan 24 2023 06:57am)
i have not read all of that. yet. in fairness there is alot there. I think i will have to read that more then once to digest all that information.

its war time. but that document outlines it has been bad for a very long time and getting worse. facts.


Yeah it's really long, and that's just one report among many. I think the really messed up thing is the report I posted was the newest one, so this is after years and years of western aid and support aimed at fixing these issues specifically.

I would add that Russia is probably worse in many ways when it comes to those issues but I just wanted to show that Ukraine hasnt exactly made great strides in conforming to western values, they have at best made token gestures to advance their position in the west.
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Jan 24 2023 11:19am
Quote (said_aouita @ 24 Jan 2023 17:13)
So what? Are we changing the subject to comparing shady business deals by the russia/ukraine governments?


Genius trick : to pick up 1 of the [counter]argument, ignoring/not answering to others, for which an equivalency is possible and then to proceed a whataboutism, even if it's completely asymmetric.
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Jan 24 2023 11:50am
One thing I'm certain of, is it doesn't matter on which side of the fence you're on pro-Russian or pro-Ukrainian we should all support those being accused of corruption to be mobilized, ideally to Bakhmut or some other front line. Scumbags who used the war as an opportunity to enrich themselves need to pay the highest penalty.
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Jan 24 2023 11:55am
Quote (Meanwhile @ 24 Jan 2023 17:07)
Seems the situation is changing drastically ?

" The West is changing its strategy from defense and deterrence of Russia to a decisive offensive and victory for Ukraine", the Deputy Chairman of the Committee on National Security, Defense and Intelligence, the Head of the Permanent Delegation of Ukraine to the NATO PA Yehor Chernev.

"We met with the NATO Secretary General @jensstoltenberg who confirmed that our partners are moving from helping to defend against russia to supporting Ukraine's victory. So no one will negotiate with Russia anymore," the politician said

Or was it framed like that since the start, only to limit the impact on MSM ?


Quoting myself, don't see anything wrong with it.

Confirmed, US & Germany to send tanks.

https://www-spiegel-de.translate.goog/politik/deutschland/krieg-in-der-ukraine-deutschland-schickt-leopard-panzer-a-e2dde871-88d0-4cf5-8aae-482d58fd850f?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

After months of debate, Chancellor Scholz decided to deliver battle tanks to Ukraine. Apparently, the allies also want to go along with it. Abrams tanks could come from the USA.

.

/e France will send the leclerc tanks too (same than caesar: fast & easy to use and Ukrainians asked for it).
More announcements in the incoming days. Painting... training and delivery in the incoming weeks.

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Jan 24 2023 12:24pm
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Jan 24 2023 01:00pm
Quote (theCrossbones @ Jan 24 2023 03:31pm)
you mad at Ukraine leader for hiding wealth, but people like "trump" do it and you call them smart business people.
lol



Quote (said_aouita @ Jan 24 2023 05:13pm)
So what? Are we changing the subject to comparing shady business deals by the russia/ukraine governments?


Just heard that Volodyshit Zelensky's regime is being investigated, alleged corruption, ministers sacked, etc. That's fantastic news when you're donating billions of taxpayer's money to them isn't it?

Here's hoping that they gonna check where all those donated weapons ended up as well as a bunch of those already showed up in Africa (Muslim terrorists say thank you NATO)

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Jan 24 2023 01:03pm
Quote (Djunior @ Jan 24 2023 11:00am)
Just heard that Volodyshit Zelensky's regime is being investigated, alleged corruption, ministers sacked, etc. That's fantastic news when you're donating billions of taxpayer's money to them isn't it?

Here's hoping that they gonna check where all those donated weapons ended up as well as a bunch of those already showed up in Africa (Muslim terrorists say thank you NATO)


Thats a great dodge of the point. Do it again.. thx
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Jan 24 2023 01:25pm
Quote (said_aouita @ Jan 24 2023 08:20am)
You didn't break down anything...Russia is 10000x more corrupt than ukraine.


Remember kids there's no corruption in Ukraine :rofl:
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