Quote (babun1024 @ 23 Jan 2023 11:08)
Polls on MSM are meant to direct public opinion so your politicians can do shit with "people" behind their decisions. Common sense and more sources to compare are better advisors.
About Russia's aggression. The thing wrong with people like you is you try to divide by going to extremes. You're a typical drone of MSM powered brainwashing. You should ask yourself questions first and use your own brain before consuming information. The answer isn't good or bad or black and white. There're facets. I'll answer your question how a normal person from Germany, mainland Europe, would answer.
Does Donbas and Crimea rightfully belong to Russia? Of course not! Russia hasn't lost anything there.
The question you should ask yourself then which I am sure you don't. Why is Russia so stuck up about Crimea? Maybe, it's their sole access to the sea there? Maybe, they don't want to give up their naval bases? What would the US do, should they be forced to abandon their bases around the world?
We, as Germans, aren't the instigator of the conflict nor a conflict party. The conflict is between geostrategical idiots from the US, Russia and puppets in Ukraine (former and current ones). We are being pulled into that conflict with bogus arguments like Ukraine is fighting for our freedom or Russia is going to be at Berlin's door next. Russia has got 0, absolutely 0 chance of fighting NATO forces! Not a chance! Ukraine isn't in NATO!
The war shouldn't have started in the first place if the Americans weren't the dumbasses to push the pressure button to the maximum without any readiness for talks about Ukraine's Nato aspiration with Russia. Now, that it started, we can't ignore. We have to let Russia bleed as much as possible for that reason we cooperate with Washington and our allies to support Ukraine in its quest to make Russia as weak as possible in the future. What are Moskow's red lines though? I am pretty sure, Moskow only cares about Crimea and how the base can be supplied over Donbas mainland. Giving Ukraine a chance to attack/retake Crimea (which was, is and always has been the reason/interest of US in Ukraine) would give Russia the reason to start a full blown conflict. Crimea itself is of no high interest to Ukrainian mainland population. It's the US that wants Russia gone from there. That's why peace talks are going to be impossible until the US decides to give up Crimea.
The full answer is Crimea and Donbass don't belong to Russia at all but I wouldn't risk a nuclear war on the continent I live over a small island.
you clearly don't know anything about my position at all. were i the msm victim you think i am, i wouldn't be one of the few guys here in strong opposition to purchasing new (foreign) weapon systems and significantly increasing our military budget. i think that as a NATO member in central europe, there is no need for us to do any of that.
concerning the leopards, i'm also still undecided on whether we should supply ukraine with mbts or not (in short, if the war is lost for them either way, or if they can reconquer their lands without us doing that, i'm against it - if it's the only option to prevent russia from occupying the country and repeat history in ukraine, i'd begrudgingly be in favour), simply because in this politicised atmosphere, it's really difficult to tell fact from fiction, and i think it's a question that military and foreign policy experts are much more competent in answering.
what i reject, however, are meaningless common phrases like "tAnKs aRe OfFeNsiVe wEaPoNs, sEnDinG tHeM iS aN eScALaTiOn tHaT sTaRts wW3!!!1!". no one who even has the slightest clue about any of this seriously thinks ukraine would extend a potential offensive far beyond its rightful borders and try to conquer parts of russia if they get those tanks. that's a preposterous notion - just like the idea that supplying a friendly nation that has been invaded by a hostile army with the means to defend itself is some kind of "aggression" against the attacker. ukraine doesn't have to fight for OUR freedom for me to support them. fighting for THEIRS is a good enough reason for me.
also, i don't give a shit about what the US want, but it's clear that ukraine doesn't want to just cede crimea, which is perfectly understandable to me. of course it is of great importance to ukraine as well. pretty ridiculous to suggest otherwise. not to mention what kind of precedent it would set to just give up whole regions of your country to russia whenever their murderous dictator decides to annex them by force. what kind of message does that send? oh right, we already know. he already took crimea in 2014, and it barely had any consequences for russia, then he came for donbas. we all know he wants the whole black sea coast, all of ukraine, and then to transnistria next. none of that is a secret. you think he's happy then? what will happen to the ukrainians if pootin is allowed to just roll over them and we stand idly by out of fear HE "sTaRtS wW3" if we push back?