Quote (Meanwhile @ Jan 21 2023 02:30pm)

You posted: "US government advises Ukraine to give up Bakhmut after losing Soledar."
Which is the distorsion of an information in order to make its sense completely different.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 21 2023 02:29pm)

The article says quite explicitly that losing or giving up Bakhmut will not be the end of the world, which echoes what I was writing last page.

Quote (Meanwhile @ Jan 21 2023 02:55pm)

She missed it on the Nuclear plants, too much syrians refugees, and accepted too much Russian gas. That's it ?

I would not account her completely responsible on each point: she had the pressure of green party, historical history regarding some minorities, and a risk to take regarding gas that many others did too.
This said, i wrote "not completely". After that we also have the pro-russian german far right... Hum Hum Hum

Quote (babun1024 @ 21 Jan 2023 15:50)

I don't have problems with reading comprehension. Soledar was lost. They're fighting in Bakhmut now. In that article, the US says exactly that worded differently. Instead of give up Bakhmut and concentrate on the fronts the wording is keeping Bakhmut is highly unlikely better concentrate efforts elsewhere.

I never said losing Bakhmut was the end of the world for Ukraine. However, afterwards Krematorsk and other big cities are next.

Quote (Meanwhile @ Jan 21 2023 04:40pm)

They are not advising Ukraine to give it up IMHO, more likely to hold on without doing a major offensive (which costs lot more lives): btw from your own source:
"U.S. officials believean offensive would stand to be more successful should the Ukrainians take advantage of the training and the significant infusion of new weaponry."
Meaning Ukraine can win its offensive, but at high price... (Not even reading in-between the lines for that)

You are also saying; "That would be the best time to initiate peace talks if any are possible." Meaning you want Ukraine to negotiate "Peace" in a VERY weak position without even using the new NATO weapons.
Well that's your opinion... But I don't think anyone here would trust Russia to respect any kind of cease fire, peace, treaty... Anymore in the short or long run.
Have to ensure that Russia is very seriously weaknened, the only guarantee of "peace".

Quote (ofthevoid @ 21 Jan 2023 15:03)

We’re winning in the short term but losing in the macro. By trying to force the world to choose our side we exposed the limitations of our soft power and in a way I think many of our allies are actually surprised by how much pull we actually lost and are rethinking the US role in the world and in their regions imo long term.

You’re seeing behavior from countries like Saudi Arabia, Israel, countries in Africa that you would have never expected 30 years ago.

Even countries like France and Germany are pushing back. The tank thing is just a public manifestation of the bigger problem for us that’s not seen.

That’s why they say ‘Ukraine must win’ because if they don’t it’s a massive optical defeat for US/NATO dominated world order.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 21 2023 10:50am)

That's not a new thing. France and Germany refused to participate in the Iraq War 20 years ago. As did Canada btw.

Regarding countries like Israel, Saudi Arabia or India: the world was always bound to move toward a more multipolar order, so the West having less pull with them than 20 or 30 years ago is not in and off itself indicative of the West doing anything wrong. Also, there are specific factors for why these countries refuse to explicitly side with us on the Ukraine issue, many of which go back to pre-Ukraine foreign policy blunders:

• Israel has strong security interests for which they rely on cooperation with Russia. They're also quite disillusioned by how much the Obama and Biden admins distanced themselves from Israel. Coupled with the growing influence of pro-palestine and anti-isreal voices within the Democratic party and of isolationist voices in the Republican party, the Israelis have come to realize that they can no longer count on America's unwavering support.
  
• Saudi Arabia has never been our ally in ideological terms, and they are obviously not happy about the push to phase out fossils which would deprive them of their main source of income. They also clearly felt betrayed and threatened by the Iran nuclear deal and the way the Obama admin tried to take a more equidistant position between them and Iran. And last but not least, they have a rapidly growing population, deep pockets and the desire to build economic and geopolitical clout for the post-oil era. It is no surprise that they decided to flex their muscles a bit when the West was going through a moment of weakness.
  
• India has a decades-old military cooperation with Russia and relies a lot on Russian supplies of military equipment. They were never going to give that up or make economic sacrifices over the Ukraine situation, a war that is far away from them and doesn't touch on any of their core interests.

Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ 21 Jan 2023 16:35)

thats not it, blackX made the full list earlier

of course the green party with media support put pressure on her, but merkel shut down some of the best and safest nuclear power plants in the world just to get some votes

the future of the power supply for over 80 million people pissed away, because she was afraid a handful of votes might flip to the green party

a seven figure amount of illegal, mostly uneducated migrants imported because she feared bad press and some ugly pictures from the border

she rekt this place over votes and feelings

Quote (babun1024 @ 21 Jan 2023 16:46)

Hmm, you seriously lack reading comprehension. Next time, you misinterpret my comments quote the line.
I didn't write they should negotiate a peace treaty if they lose Bakhmut. The condition was in case they lose the two other majour cities (Krematorsk and Slovjansk) and are completly driven off from Donbass region.
Whether Russia can manage to capture those cities is another story. They're much better strongholds than Bakhmut.

Quote (babun1024 @ 21 Jan 2023 12:46)

US government advises Ukraine to give up Bakhmut after losing Soledar. Loss of eastern Ukraine is imminent, for Russia won't just stop there and will go for Kramatorsk and Sloviansk.
That would be the best time to initiate peace talks if any are possible.

Quote (Meanwhile @ Jan 21 2023 05:10pm)

You know, politicians are often judged not by their actions but by overall economic conditions.
Who would have take the decision to force it on nuclear plants ? It takes 5 years to builds those minimum. Losing next elections.
Who could have refuse the cheap Russian gas ? Just to end up being kicked out on votes because people would not understand the threat. (Until now with Ukraine invasion). Losing next elections.
Sure thing is i would prefer the do-nothing Merkel than pro-russian fascists from AFD.



NP let me correct the mistake



My post was:

They are not advising Ukraine to give it up IMHO, more likely to hold on without doing a major offensive (which costs lot more lives): btw from your own source:
"U.S. officials believe an offensive would stand to be more successful should the Ukrainians take advantage of the training and the significant infusion of new weaponry."
Meaning Ukraine can win its offensive, but at high price... (Not even reading in-between the lines for that)

You are also saying; "That would be the best time to initiate peace talks if any are possible." Meaning you want Ukraine to negotiate "Peace" in a VERY weak position without even using the new NATO weapons.
Well that's your opinion... But I don't think anyone here would trust Russia to respect any kind of cease fire, peace, treaty... Anymore in the short or long run.
Have to ensure that Russia is very seriously weaknened, the only guarantee of "peace".

==> Hmm ok so IF Russia take major cities in eastern Ukraine, then it will be the time for "peace" ... My bad :rofl:

Quote

On another front, U.S. officials are advising Ukraine to adjust how Kyiv conducts the war away from trying to match Russia round for round with artillery fire because ultimately Moscow will gain the advantage through attrition, the official said.

Quote (Melatonina @ Jan 21 2023 03:40am)

That irony. Only you, pigy6000 and proximity (pretty much) are the only ones left defending this another NATO war against the evil russia.

Let's not forget to take another booster fatty

Quote (Djunior @ Jan 21 2023 06:16am)

Heads will roll, you know what I meant. You've seen my reply to Ferdia, I was taking the EU as an example cuz they will be the biggest losers if Russia wins. The US will be fine I guess as this is just another useless and costly shit conflict that no one will care about when it's all over.