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Jan 20 2023 06:41pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 21 Jan 2023 01:08)
Looked to my left, looked to my right. Still didn't see an independent internationally recognized Kurdistan. Did see an eerily smiling Erdogan


Dunno, i was just saying americans were rude with their own minorities, poors, even veterans...

After that kurds have a territory in Syria, still in war, and a recognized territory in Iraq.
There's still alot of kurds in Turkey, where they are a minority. Oh yes, Erdogan is horrible anyway, with his religious & nationalistic madness...
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Jan 20 2023 06:44pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 20 2023 11:09pm)
The US should protect Europe from potential Russian aggression, on the European continent?
Interesting angle.

The US and us are leading a proxy war against Russia by now. The aim is to bleed their economy and resources to force them to change from within . The longer their invasion is stalled the more secure we are as a whole. During that time, European armies can be rebuilt as a proper repellent against future aggressions. US would have to back off and have less say in Europe but it'll be good for US taxpayers.
Proxy war isn't a direct involvement in war however. If we deliver weapons which aren't meant for stalling but active aggression against Russia like Himars loads which could strike Russia within its borders or weapons with which Crimea, Belarus or Russia can be attacked, we'd be directly involved in the conflict as a waring party. You don't seem to comprehend what the implications are. Russia would be fighting NATO. They can never win against NATO which could result in nuclear winter.

From which country are you?

Biden's administration backed off itself with bogus arguments over M1 Abrams deliveries. They aren't that stupid either.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Jan 20 2023 06:46pm
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Jan 20 2023 06:48pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 21 Jan 2023 01:39)
So ignore Ukraine's right to exist as a sovereign country? Or accept Ukraine's right to exist as a sovereign country, but only the parts the Russia doesn't want to occupy?


This kind of people exists: "Cucks' Apex".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movements_for_the_annexation_of_Canada_to_the_United_States

:lol:

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Jan 20 2023 06:49pm
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Jan 20 2023 06:52pm
Quote (Djunior @ 20 Jan 2023 19:36)
Ask Russia about Ukraine joining NATO and Crimea issues. I already said that Russia is seeing things different and this has to do with WW2 / cold war / distrust, all of which you ignored and in fact you pulled out a wild Brazil / Portugal comparison (I mean what the hell, lol)

Russian GDP is also something you should view differently and you should consider things like cost of living in Russia / rent etc etc.. Then they got all the energy (fossil fuels) they ever need and so on.

There's no way you shut that gas station (lol) down with a bunch of sanctions (that probably hurt YOU more) and you can't bomb them into submission cuz 6K nukes.

Everyone is betting heavily on Ukraine to win the war it cannot possibly win, Russia will carry on forever if needed and nothing can be done about that (as you know if you think for like 2 seconds).



Yes you (NATO) can fight to the last Ukrainian, way to go man.

When that actually happens and if Russia still wins in the end there will be a lot of explaining to do (and heads on the chopping block)



Anger and bad feelings that's all you, lol

Hence your continued comments that "Russia must be destroyed" which Ukraine can never realize. You should think that over


i'm not asking russia, i'm asking you. pootin sees it one way in 2003, and another way in 2014. i clearly see it the way pootin saw it in 2003: ukraine is a sovereign country, and it's up to their citizens if they want to ask NATO to join or not.

YOU, however, try to have it both ways: on the one hand you keep saying NATO "fucked up" by acknowledging ukraine's aspiration to join, but at the same time you act offended when someone draws the logical conclusion that you support pootin's current position, which is that the russian president should be able to tell if ukraine is allowed to join NATO or not. both can't be true at the same time, so grow a pair and tell us what YOU personally think.

spoiler alert: we all know where your heart REALLY is, that's why you keep dodging this question, that's why your first reaction to russia murdering ukrainian children is "b-b-but what about NATO and greta thunberg?!". so please spare us the fake outrage, pootin bootlicker.

This post was edited by fender on Jan 20 2023 06:55pm
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Jan 20 2023 06:56pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 21 2023 12:24am)
I actually think NATO and its members have made huge blunders.
Inviting Ukraine to join and then Merkel vetoing their accession was a mistake.
Ukraine should have been allowed to enter or the invite to membership should not have been made at all.
Not because of any perceived assurances NATO had towards Russia, but because it jeopardized Ukraine's security.

You don't know how NATO works. Nobody invited Ukraine, they applied themselves. US geostrategical department were happy with open arms to "extend" their sphere of influence. Germany and France were against because they foresaw the situation right now. Ukraine jeopardized their security themselves.

As soon as Ukraine is about to fall, they're going to be discarded just like the Kurds in Syria. Why is it important? That was the most recent version of selling off "friends" after they were of no geopolitical use anymore.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Jan 20 2023 06:58pm
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Jan 20 2023 07:06pm
Quote (babun1024 @ Jan 21 2023 12:44am)
The US and us are leading a proxy war against Russia by now. The aim is to bleed their economy and resources to force them to change from within . The longer their invasion is stalled the more secure we are as a whole. During that time, European armies can be rebuilt as a proper repellent against future aggressions. US would have to back off and have less say in Europe but it'll be good for US taxpayers.
Proxy war isn't a direct involvement in war however. If we deliver weapons which aren't meant for stalling but active aggression against Russia like Himars loads which could strike Russia within its borders or weapons with which Crimea, Belarus or Russia can be attacked, we'd be directly involved in the conflict as a waring party. You don't seem to comprehend what the implications are. Russia would be fighting NATO. They can never win against NATO which could result in nuclear winter.

From which country are you?

Biden's administration backed off itself with bogus arguments over M1 Abrams deliveries. They aren't that stupid either.


Actually I think the US is looking for it's EU partners to step up and provide its own deterrent.
Republicans control the house and there is going to me more scrutiny on government spending.
Biden also has an election campaign upcoming.
At a time of economic recession, spending endless tax dollars abroad won't be an easy sell to moderate or undecided voters.

I see the point your making, in part I agree with you and in part I disagree. Germany is already sending alot of weaponry and equipment to Ukraine.
Sending main battle tanks shouldn't be a "redline" in my opinion.
Ukraine has tanks. Russia has tanks.
This is not a real terms escalation.
I agree with longe range missiles that could strike the Russian interior; Then again Ukraine has already proven it can do this by itself.

Out of interest what do you think Russia would so in retaliation for Germany sending tanks to Ukraine?


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Jan 20 2023 07:11pm
Quote (babun1024 @ Jan 21 2023 12:56am)
You don't know how NATO works. Nobody invited Ukraine, they applied themselves. US geostrategical department were happy with open arms to "extend" their sphere of influence. Germany and France were against because they foresaw the situation right now. Ukraine jeopardized their security themselves.

As soon as Ukraine is about to fall, they're going to be discarded just like the Kurds in Syria. Why is it important? That was the most recent version of selling off "friends" after they were of no geopolitical use anymore.


I understand how NATO works check my previous posts here. What I mean is that other allies were supportive and happy to "invite" Ukraine into the alliance.
Merkel and Sarkozy made a decision to block Ukraine. I believe that was a mistake.
Likely 250,000 dead and at least 10 million refugees from Ukraine are direct consequences of that decision
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Jan 20 2023 07:13pm
Quote (babun1024 @ Jan 21 2023 12:56am)
You don't know how NATO works. Nobody invited Ukraine, they applied themselves. US geostrategical department were happy with open arms to "extend" their sphere of influence. Germany and France were against because they foresaw the situation right now. Ukraine jeopardized their security themselves.

As soon as Ukraine is about to fall, they're going to be discarded just like the Kurds in Syria. Why is it important? That was the most recent version of selling off "friends" after they were of no geopolitical use anymore.


Wait. Merkel and Sarkozy blocked Ukraine because they foresaw the current situation?
That doesn't make sense
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Jan 20 2023 07:14pm
Quote (babun1024 @ 21 Jan 2023 01:56)
You don't know how NATO works. Nobody invited Ukraine, they applied themselves. US geostrategical department were happy with open arms to "extend" their sphere of influence. Germany and France were against because they foresaw the situation right now. Ukraine jeopardized their security themselves.

As soon as Ukraine is about to fall, they're going to be discarded just like the Kurds in Syria. Why is it important? That was the most recent version of selling off "friends" after they were of no geopolitical use anymore.


So you are predicting that Ukraine will fall ? Okay. When ?
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Jan 20 2023 07:29pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 20 2023 08:39pm)
So ignore Ukraine's right to exist as a sovereign country? Or accept Ukraine's right to exist as a sovereign country, but only the parts the Russia doesn't want to occupy?


I mean they could say "good luck" I guess, they don't have to be rude.
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