I never said Ukraine has won the war, I never said Russia has lost the war. There are no winners in war. Don't attribute things to me which I didn't say myself.
What I said and I will repeat, is that the Russians haven't proven they can defeat Ukraine militarily. They haven't removed Zelensky's government or "demilitarized Ukraine" something which was their own stated objective.

Russians might yet accomplish those objectives but until then expecting the Ukrainians to come to the negotiating table is a pipe dream; Also if we analyze what you yourself have just said, Russia is preparing for a further escalation/sending conscripts to the fronts, then how are we meant to believe that Russia has any intention of negotiating? They do not.

I totally agree that Ukraine has been able to resist largely because of military aid. Which only strengthens that argument that it was a mistake for Merkel to block their accession to NATO previously.
I also understand the invasion force was not 100% of Russia's potential, not even close.
So when you use "you still think" and then attribute an argument to me, that I didn't make myself. That is a strawman.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jan 19 2023 08:30am

my view is there will be no negotiated settlement in 2023. too many things have to first happen.



i disagree with this statement. not knowing Merkel's mind, i would be of the view that she probably had the same concerns as most educated people on the topic - that inviting Ukraine into NATO would result in war.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jan 19 2023 08:34am

I saw an interview with David Petraeus where he said the Abrams have a very complex almost "Jet Engine". In comparison to the Leopard tanks, which have twin diesel engines.
He said keeping Abrams fueled and functional was very challenging even for the US in Iraq.
Sending Abrams is far more complicated logistically than sending Leopard's.

Yes, 3-6 months training minimum for these Abrams. And the fear it could be captured.
=>I dont know if US have older & easier-to-use tanks in stock.
Btw Denmark doing an "all in" and gives Ukraine its 19 x Caesars...

thats a solid argument, but i would have rather let these rust before blowing people up with/in them over some dirt in ukraine

we are way past the "normal war" part, its 100% a proxy war to weaken russia right now and make some money

the ukranian people will be slaves for decades with all this lend and lease stuff (probably better than putins slaves i guess)

and while any sane person will take an actual ukranian refugee (not the fake students ) over the trash we have taken before its a question of sustainability

half the country is one gas bill away from being bankrupt, how much more can you possibly help?

and how many people will go back to shitty jobs in post war ukraine, when its more comfortable here? and what about those that are not absorbed by low wage labor market?

Many times before (in this thread) you've called Russia "weak" "A gas station" "a paper tiger"

It seems you're finally coming to terms with reality

e:

And earlier NATO membership for Ukraine? And Russia losing Crimea? Would just have led to the same conflict only earlier


This post was edited by Djunior on Jan 19 2023 09:32am

Gas turbines just like the T80s (read: Gas guzzlers)

Militarily, economically they are weak. Undiversified economy. Corrupt, underdeveloped and conscripted military.
Which reality are we talking about? The reality the Kremlin is pedaling? Or the truth?

I understand it must be painful living on the wrong side of history.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jan 19 2023 09:35am

Your dumb shit remarks don't bother me at all. I'm just reminding you of what you posted earlier in this thread. Explain how I'm "on the wrong side of history" by doing that, lol

And Russia has never been weak, even in the 1990s they still had their nuclear arsenal. And now they're mobilizing and ramping up weapons productions.

This post was edited by Djunior on Jan 19 2023 09:45am

Russia's GDP is less than that of Texas. Russia is the mouse that roars, see below.
https://www.ipi.org/ipi_issues/detail/russias-minuscule-economy-the-mouse-that-roars

The Russian army just got finger blasted by a country with a population 3 times smaller than its own.
They have a huge nuclear arsenal, absolutely.
Having a nuclear arsenal changes very little unless they are prepared to use it offensively. Are they prepared to walk through nuclear fallout to capture the Donbas?

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jan 19 2023 10:04am