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Jan 18 2023 03:13pm
Quote (fender @ Jan 18 2023 10:00pm)
i what world is pointing to nato welcoming sovereign nations aspiring for membership in 2008 an on-topic reponse to russians murdering ukrainian children?!
and what does greta thunberg have to do with any of it?

even if your mental gymnastics make you think that's even remotely a useful reply, you still LIED when you claimed



no. your immediate reaction to reading about russia murdering ukrainian civilians was pointing fingers at nato and greta thunberg (who seems to be living rent free in your head). lying pootin bootlicker gets exposed repeatedly, lol.



Still pursuing this? I'm actually one of the few here that have stated many times that this shit conflict should've been avoided, the two parties should've negotiated before the conflict broke out.

And you know what's really funny here, YOU are one of those supporting NATO policies that caused this shit conflict to happen. So YOU are part of the problem. Suck that up, lol
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Jan 18 2023 03:21pm
Quote (Djunior @ 18 Jan 2023 22:13)
Still pursuing this? I'm actually one of the few here that have stated many times that this shit conflict should've been avoided, the two parties should've negotiated before the conflict broke out.

And you know what's really funny here, YOU are one of those supporting NATO policies that caused this shit conflict to happen. So YOU are part of the problem. Suck that up, lol


you are a proven liar, who tries to weasel their way out of the fact that your immediate reaction to russia murdering ukrainian children was pointing fingers at NATO and greta thunberg for whatever reason...

you might have successfully deluded yourself into thinking you're a reasonable person on this issue, but your reaction to the dnipro bombing clearly reveals your insane bias, lying pootin bootlicker.
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Jan 18 2023 03:29pm
Quote (fender @ Jan 18 2023 10:21pm)
you are a proven liar, who tries to weasel their way out of the fact that your immediate reaction to russia murdering ukrainian children was pointing fingers at NATO and greta thunberg for whatever reason...

you might have successfully deluded yourself into thinking you're a reasonable person on this issue, but your reaction to the dnipro bombing clearly reveals your insane bias, lying pootin bootlicker.


I said NATO fucked up with source quoted.

Later I added that the mayor of Dnipro himself pointed out that the missile was meant for the power stations nearby, not for the apartment blocks...

Which busted your shit narrative that the Russians were "targeting" that apartment block which means on purpose.

I exposed you lying scumbag ass is that why you're so mad right now?

Quote (fender @ Jan 18 2023 02:24pm)
deflect some more, pootin bootlicker. doesn't change anything about his army targeting civilians - women and children, and murdering thousands of them.


See THAT? Proven liar right there, can't believe you're still arguing, hopeless position buddy

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Jan 18 2023 03:46pm
Quote (Djunior @ 18 Jan 2023 22:29)
I said NATO fucked up with source quoted.

Later I added that the mayor of Dnipro himself pointed out that the missile was meant for the power stations nearby, not for the apartment blocks...

Which busted your shit narrative that the Russians were "targeting" that apartment block which means on purpose.

I exposed you lying scumbag ass is that why you're so mad right now?



See THAT? Proven liar right there, can't believe you're still arguing, hopeless position buddy


apparently your reading comprehension is about as terrible as your honesty. the post you quoted there was obviously not about the dnipro incident alone - the fact that "only" dozens died there, not thousands, would have told that to any halfway intelligent person, but since you need some extra help understanding it, there you go. it was a comment on you constantly deflecting from or defending whatever pootin's murderers do in ukraine, and they DID target civilians on countless occasions, there are plenty of lists of their massacres and war crimes online.

i know you're eager to project now, i can tell how mad you are by all the childish little insults in your recent posts, but it doesn't change the facts.

bottom line is that whenever someone points out russian atrocities, you're among the first to make excuses, point fingers at NATO (or greta thunberg), and shill for daddy pootin. don't think you're fooling anyone, buddy.
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Jan 18 2023 03:53pm
Quote (Meanwhile @ Jan 18 2023 05:42pm)
^ferdia

If you want a technical point: Russian troop movements prove John Mearsheimer wrong. Putin’s shifting of Russian troops away from NATO’s borders and into Ukraine proves Russia hardly felt threatened.

Another teriible point that the guy is not a magic genius:

In a September 2015 conference, Mearsheimer's question of Putin's interest in conquering Ukraine. He declared verbatim on this subject: "If you really want to destroy Russia, you should encourage him to conquer Ukraine. Putin is far too smart to try to do so"


Checkmate.


sorry i only saw this now (please dont ask me why i scrolled back lol). ehmm i dont know much about this John Mearsheimer, but i think i will buy his 2007 book to be a bit mroe informed on a certain topic. i see he stated it would be unwise of ukraine to give up its arsenal (he apparently said this before this occured). i note also "He also dismisses democratic peace theory, which claims that democracies never or rarely go to war with each other.["

i also agree with this:

"Night watchman in Mearsheimer's terminology is a "global hegemon", a theoretical impossibility according to The Tragedy of Great Power Politics.[27] Nevertheless, in 1990, Mearsheimer mentioned the existence of a "watchman". Democracies lived at peace because "America's hegemonic position in NATO ... mitigated the effects of anarchy on the Western democracies and induced cooperation among them ... With the United States serving as a night watchman (emphasis added), fears about relative gains among the Western European states were mitigated ..."[18]

Afterwards, Mearsheimer did not mention the "watchman" for some time. A decade later, he described the "international anarchy" as having not changed with the end of the Cold War, "... and there are few signs that such change is likely any time soon. States remain the principal actors in world politics and there is still no night watchman standing above them."[27] Five more years later, Mearsheimer confirmed that "in an anarchic system there is no night watchman for state to call when trouble comes knocking at their door."[28]

Precisely two decades after Mearsheimer had detected the watchman in the world for the last time, he rediscovered the watchman, which exists and keeps Europe at peace. The article "Why Is Europe Peaceful Today?" unambiguously answers, "The reason is simple: the United States is by far the most powerful country in the world and it effectively acts as a night watchman."[29] "

on Ukraine :

"2014 Crimean crisis

Mearsheimer had warned in 1993 that a nuclear-free Ukraine would remain exposed to the danger of Russian attempts at reconquest. In 2014, he retrospectively criticized the geopolitical reorientation of the United States under Bill Clinton since 1995 due to its monopolistic and hegemonic orientation. With the intention of weakening the government of Russia, he said, NATO was planned to be extended to Russia's borders. Accordingly, in an article in Foreign Affairs in August 2014, he assigned the main blame for the outbreak of the conflict to the United States and its Western allies.[72]"

my god the worlds most influential realist of his generation agree's with my position. wow, thanks for linking this name to me, i guess i should read a bit of his stuff. How is this guy viewed currently ? I guess western minds villify him. I have some reading to do i guess.

======

"2014 Crimean crisis

Mearsheimer had warned in 1993 that a nuclear-free Ukraine would remain exposed to the danger of Russian attempts at reconquest. In 2014, he retrospectively criticized the geopolitical reorientation of the United States under Bill Clinton since 1995 due to its monopolistic and hegemonic orientation. With the intention of weakening the government of Russia, he said, NATO was planned to be extended to Russia's borders. Accordingly, in an article in Foreign Affairs in August 2014, he assigned the main blame for the outbreak of the conflict to the United States and its Western allies.[72]

Since the mid-1990s, Russian leaders have adamantly opposed NATO enlargement, and in recent years, they have made it clear that they would not stand by while their strategically important neighbor turned into a Western bastion. For Putin, the illegal overthrow of Ukraine’s democratically elected and pro-Russian president -- which he rightly labeled a “coup” -- was the final straw. He responded by taking Crimea, a peninsula he feared would host a NATO naval base, and working to destabilize Ukraine until it abandoned its efforts to join the West.

The narrative that Russia had only been waiting for opportunities to annex Ukraine is seen as erroneous by Mearsheimer.

The U.S. and European political elites had been caught unprepared by the events "because they attach little importance to the logic of realism in the 21st century and assume that European unity and freedom can be guaranteed by means of liberal principles such as the rule of law, economic interdependence, and democracy."

The U.S., aware of Russia's rejectionist stance, which is understandable because of Russia's security interests, would have pushed for the eastward expansion of the EU and NATO and supported the democratization of Ukraine. Mearsheimer considers Putin's reaction understandable because Ukraine (as a non-aligned state) is "indispensable" as a buffer for Russia's security needs. Mearsheimer compared NATO expansion into Eastern Europe, led by NATO, and the planned inclusion of Ukraine to the hypothetical scenario of a Chinese military alliance in North America: "Imagine the American outrage if China built an impressive military alliance and tried to include Canada and Mexico."

Mearsheimer argued in a piece for Foreign Affairs that Russia's annexation of the Crimea was fueled by concerns that it would lose access to its Black Sea Fleet naval base at Sevastopol if Ukraine continued to move towards NATO and European integration. Mearsheimer concluded that US policy should shift to recognize Ukraine as a buffer state between NATO and Russia, rather than attempt to absorb Ukraine into NATO.[72] Mearsheimer's article provoked Michael McFaul and Stephen Sestanovich to publish their response in the November/December 2014 issue of Foreign Affairs.[73]

Mearsheimer sees NATO's eastward expansion as a dangerous provocation of Russia. He invokes George F. Kennan as one of the first critical admonishers who warned in 1998 of the danger of war as a result of eastward enlargement. Mearsheimer attributes the political mistakes to the lack of political realism or the great influence of the "liberal hegemony" school of thought in both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. The only sensible way out of the crisis, he said, is to soberly factor in Russia's security interests, like those of any other power. Ukraine, he said, must accept the role of buffer or bridge given to it by its geostrategic situation. Anything else, he said, was abstract and meaningless in terms of Realpolitik. The West's constructive cooperation with Russia is of great importance for solving important existing and upcoming problems and should not be put at risk, he said. Mearsheimer also named the weapons and "advisors" the U.S. is providing to lead Ukraine into a "civil war." In response to the Brookings Institution's 2015 recommendation to provide weapons to Ukraine to increase the cost of an attack to Putin,[74] Mearsheimer replied in The New York Times that the strategic importance is so great to Russia that it will continue the conflict at any cost, up to and including the use of nuclear weapons.[75] Former U.S. Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul counterargued in his Foreign Affairs response piece, that in 2014, Russian foreign policy was not a reaction to the United States, but was based on the internal Russian dynamics.[76] "

my god i agree with all of that.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jan 18 2023 04:09pm
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Jan 18 2023 04:07pm
Quote (fender @ Jan 18 2023 10:46pm)
apparently your reading comprehension is about as terrible as your honesty. the post you quoted there was obviously not about the dnipro incident alone - the fact that "only" dozens died there, not thousands, would have told that to any halfway intelligent person, but since you need some extra help understanding it, there you go. it was a comment on you constantly deflecting from or defending whatever pootin's murderers do in ukraine, and they DID target civilians on countless occasions, there are plenty of lists of their massacres and war crimes online.

i know you're eager to project now, i can tell how mad you are by all the childish little insults in your recent posts, but it doesn't change the facts.

bottom line is that whenever someone points out russian atrocities, you're among the first to make excuses, point fingers at NATO (or greta thunberg), and shill for daddy pootin. don't think you're fooling anyone, buddy.


Now it's not the Dnipro incident alone huh well guess what we were talking about the Dnipro incident which is why I mentioned the mayor of Dnipro, remember?

Now stop being dishonest, YOU said "targeting civilians" instead of saying "targeting civilian infrastructure" which would be correct and what I admitted, read above. I also condemned the attack.

You're as mad and dishonest as they come. And to think you're one of those voting for the shit "progressives" that so badly want Ukraine in the EU and are therefore part of the problem, lol

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Jan 18 2023 04:39pm
Quote (ferdia @ 18 Jan 2023 21:53)
sorry i only saw this now (please dont ask me why i scrolled back lol). ehmm i dont know much about this John Mearsheimer, but i think i will buy his 2007 book to be a bit mroe informed on a certain topic. i see he stated it would be unwise of ukraine to give up its arsenal (he apparently said this before this occured). i note also "He also dismisses democratic peace theory, which claims that democracies never or rarely go to war with each other.["

[... big wall]
my god i agree with all of that.


You should take care...

His problem, unlike the former foreign minister below: he never met ppl like Putin, Lavrov, Medvedev....



This post was edited by Meanwhile on Jan 18 2023 05:02pm
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Jan 18 2023 05:02pm
Quote (Djunior @ 18 Jan 2023 23:07)
Now it's not the Dnipro incident alone huh well guess what we were talking about the Dnipro incident which is why I mentioned the mayor of Dnipro, remember?

Now stop being dishonest, YOU said "targeting civilians" instead of saying "targeting civilian infrastructure" which would be correct and what I admitted, read above. I also condemned the attack.

You're as mad and dishonest as they come. And to think you're one of those voting for the shit "progressives" that so badly want Ukraine in the EU and are therefore part of the problem, lol


hey, lying pootin bootlicker, who do you think lives in / operates / uses civilian infrastructure, huh?

let me guess, according to you it's either "nazis", "nato", or "greta thunberg"...
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Jan 18 2023 05:11pm
Quote (Djunior @ 18 Jan 2023 22:07)
Now stop being dishonest, YOU said "targeting civilians" instead of saying "targeting civilian infrastructure" which would be correct and what I admitted, read above. I also condemned the attack.


This is a very, very, borderline stance... When you fire with missiles with such a well know and admitted low precision:

The "target" will be a big circle on the map containing both civilian infra & life buildings. Shrodinger is strong with this one...

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Jan 18 2023 05:21pm
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Jan 18 2023 05:12pm
Quote (Meanwhile @ Jan 18 2023 10:39pm)
You should take care...

His problem, unlike the former foreign minister below: he never met ppl like Putin, Lavrov, Medvedev....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlB-pRqdyBg


ill watch that tomorrow, about to bed

/edit however I disagree that he has a problem, and I disagree that because someone does not agree with him ergo he must be wrong. it is quite easy for me to pick apart this video tbh (and will, on request).

This post was edited by ferdia on Jan 18 2023 05:34pm
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