Better than willfully ignorant. Imagine having people spoon feed you the friendliest sources imaginable and you still can't accept reality because it would be too embarrassing to have to admit you've been as wrong as you are.

For someone who's such a warrior for the west you sure don't exemplify any of its values lol.

This post was edited by DizzyBusiness on Jan 12 2023 03:22pm

What have I been wrong about?

Debunking justifications for an illegal war makes me a warrior for the west?

Your clutching at straws now, come on.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jan 12 2023 03:33pm

Not imperialism, just power politics and a healthy dose of paranoia.. Russia was not going to allow Sevastopol to fall into Western hands, and the regime could not allow Black Sea gas to jeopardize Russian energy exports, hence the need to seize Crimea. Ukraine in NATo places Western forces a short ride from Moscow, and makes the defensive of Belarus untenable, hence the need to keep Ukraine neutral, and when that proved impossible, to reach for regime change. The current regime has selfish reasons, as well. A successful and independent Ukraine is bad for the regime's security, as the war has given the regime every excuse to turn Russia in a far more authoritarian direction. It's also exactly what the Russian right wants, and that is the core of the regime's support.

Correct

Correct. The only point I would disagree with is the "short ride from Moscow" comment.
There is no ambition for NATO to ever invade Russia or ride to Moscow.
There were no alliance troops in eastern europe until Russia annexed Crimea in 2014.

There will be alliance troops now. Not to mention a massive increase in defense spending in Germany and Poland.

Why would NATO invade Russia in the first place. When have anyone said that in this thread, I am perplexed.
NATO is Not and Never the problem in my personal opinion. The United States is.
If the United States is not in NATO or perhaps a EU Army without 3 of the 5 Eyes.
I highly doubt Russia will feel threaten.

You need to make a point to debunk something, not just screech "you're wrong", which is why you are being mocked now instead of argued with. You aren't mentally competent enough for this conversation.

Funny when i read about the "negotiation" silly excuse: should cyber attacks be inclued in the "accords" ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberwarfare_by_Russia

PATHETIC

It was insinuated in the post I quoted, literally above my last post.

Do you think Russians feel threatened? Or do you think that Putin feels threatened?



A cyber attack could actually be the the most likely trigger for NATO to obliterate Russian forces in Ukraine. An massive attack on Ukraine that spilled over into say Poland or Czech.



Do you understand what debunk means?
Another nothing post.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jan 12 2023 06:02pm

The Government. It is not just Putin.
The same can be said as Taiwan. The population doesn't feel threaten initially , but the DPP government made it so with propaganda all day long and do shit to trigger certain response from the mainland.

And when that is done and media and influence from the sitting government , sooner or later the population will feel threaten. Not the entire population, but enough.

This is how I view it. The same can be said of any other country. Citizens of USA don't feel threaten before 2014 in regards to China. They just think they are annoying and uncouth and loud.
There you go.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Jan 12 2023 06:05pm