Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 12 2023 01:52pm)

I am cherry picking from an article to give a brief summary of what I am alluding to; bare in mind that this is all speculative, based on events that have taken place.

"Politico reported on an internal power struggle with two main alliances within Russia's leadership.
On one side, Russian security agencies, defence minister Sergei Shoigu and chief of the general staff Valery Gerasimov. And on the other, a "war party" led by Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov and Wagner Group founder Mr Prigozhin."

There is obviously the Russian military and then the Wagner group. There is some debate on what entity will claim the success of capturing more ground in Donbas, mainly Soledar if that is confirmed.

Again it is speculative commentary, but the dynamic is very interesting. I think it doesn't manifest itself the same in the west; Although private security industry is massive, particularly after the Iraq catastrophe.
It appears in Russia that the Wagner group is very prominent in the public consciousness.

In the UK we would never really think that a private security firm could supersede for example the US or UK militaries; whereas the Wagner group appears to be claiming responsibility for potential battlefield success.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 12 2023 02:52pm)

I am cherry picking from an article to give a brief summary of what I am alluding to; bare in mind that this is all speculative, based on events that have taken place.

"Politico reported on an internal power struggle with two main alliances within Russia's leadership.
On one side, Russian security agencies, defence minister Sergei Shoigu and chief of the general staff Valery Gerasimov. And on the other, a "war party" led by Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov and Wagner Group founder Mr Prigozhin."

There is obviously the Russian military and then the Wagner group. There is some debate on what entity will claim the success of capturing more ground in Donbas, mainly Soledar if that is confirmed.

Again it is speculative commentary, but the dynamic is very interesting. I think it doesn't manifest itself the same in the west; Although private security industry is massive, particularly after the Iraq catastrophe.
It appears in Russia that the Wagner group is very prominent in the public consciousness.

In the UK we would never really think that a private security firm could supersede for example the US or UK militaries; whereas the Wagner group appears to be claiming responsibility for potential battlefield success.

Quote (Djunior @ Jan 12 2023 02:28pm)

Wagner mercenaries are being used as stormtroopers, probably the worst job in the whole military and not many volunteers available for that reason.

These guys are recruited from shit hole prisons where they're serving long sentences and offered a 6 month Wagner contract. When they've served their time they're free to go if they're still alive.

Wagner doesn't supersede the regular military they're just a thrown together bunch that is sent in to assault heavily defended enemy trenches and strong points.

Quote (Djunior @ Jan 12 2023 02:28pm)

Wagner mercenaries are being used as stormtroopers, probably the worst job in the whole military and not many volunteers available for that reason.

These guys are recruited from shit hole prisons where they're serving long sentences and offered a 6 month Wagner contract. When they've served their time they're free to go if they're still alive.

Wagner doesn't supersede the regular military they're just a thrown together bunch that is sent in to assault heavily defended enemy trenches and strong points.

Quote (ferdia @ Jan 12 2023 03:36pm)

any sources for this? also if this is true then they do have claims for successes i guess.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 12 2023 03:38pm)

If Wagner group or Prigozhin claims responsibility for taking Soledar, in my eyes they have superseded the Russian miltary in a way; In terms of tangible battlefield accomplishments for Russia in the past 6 months.

Quote (Djunior @ Jan 12 2023 02:39pm)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufOVEKwY2sw


Edit:



If they're the only ones sent in they're the ones to claim that victory. They're just given that shit job.

Why would you try to argue against this

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 12 2023 03:42pm)

What am I arguing against exactly?

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 12 2023 02:52pm)

In the UK we would never really think that a private security firm could supersede for example the US or UK militaries; whereas the Wagner group appears to be claiming responsibility for potential battlefield success.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 12 2023 02:38pm)

If Wagner group or Prigozhin claims responsibility for taking Soledar, in my eyes they have superseded the Russian miltary in a way; In terms of tangible battlefield accomplishments for Russia in the past 6 months.

There are some wild stories of Wagner mercenaries executing deserters with sledgehammers. Kind of an incredible paradigm. I'm putting the kettle on and wondering what I'll buy for my dinner tonight, and somewhere else in the world a Wagner merc is executing a dude with a sledgehammer. Life choices eh.

Quote (Djunior @ Jan 12 2023 02:45pm)

You're arguing that Wagner supersedes the regular Russian armed forces. Look what you just said

Quote (Djunior @ Jan 12 2023 02:45pm)

You're arguing that Wagner supersedes the regular Russian armed forces. Look what you just said

Quote (ferdia @ Jan 12 2023 03:49pm)

I dont sermonise right and wrong i just see things for what they are. in this regard your comments here re: wagner would be plausible to my mind. nothing strange about this and not a new development in the history of war.



im not sure what you mean. to my mind both Russia and Ukraine have "recruited" "armed forces" that are "allowed" to "do their own thing" "to a degree" whereas in most armies around the world there is a clear chain of command top down.