In even the most hopeless of situations (Israel / Palestine for example) there's been a tremendous effort and pressure to negotiate. High ranking officials stepping in to mediate and work out a peace plan and so on. For years and years.

During the first gulf war the coalition did not attack until all possible political options were exhausted.

Now we're dealing with the largest nation on Earth and 6K nukes to burn and you claim it's ok for the West to refuse negotiations??

You can't be serious, lol

e: I meant

This post was edited by Djunior on Jan 11 2023 02:00pm

Oh that yes, there's always a door open, you can trust the french diplomacy for that... This is the first directive.

But right now, while Russia continue its advance and while all others treaties have been violated (my previous wiki link) along with all the war crimes and actual Russia leaders being responsible ? HARD.

Would have wait for a significant physical change, or power change, on Russia's side.

In before Putin’s TOS-1A negotiation song.

Once upon a time India and Pakistan almost nuked each other. America convinced them not to do it. During the Cuban missile crisis both sides backed down, after negotiating. Your narrative of Russia advancing is just wrong. As are various other narratives that have implied that Russia plans to invade western europe (or Poland for that matter). Russian leadership has an inferiority complex.

putting in conditions prior to any negotiating is just wrong, yet thats exactly what the west is doing. I am not pro-russian, or pro-american, the war is senseless, it was the west that broke the status quo so apportioning all the blame on Russia is foolhandy.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jan 11 2023 02:18pm

It's not a narrative: Russia is wasting hundreds lives every day in order to liberate Ukraine from Nato.
No it is not the west who broke the statu quo (which was to continue to let Russia to oppress its people and sovereign countries ?)
Ukraine decided to leave them and we, as NATO, decided to help them, whatever you want it or not...

"Neutrality" at this stage is alienation plain and simple.

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Jan 11 2023 02:21pm

1. Ukraine is not in Nato
2. Yes Russia was oppressing Ukraine. By your own words the West broke that status quo.
3. see 2.

No one knows what is going to happen over the next couple of years, therefore I have no view on Ukraine Neutrality (as I have no idea what that would even look like).

1. Nato has been called by Ukraine. They refused to get absorbed by Russia.
2. Putin himself said Ukraine was a sovereign country in 2003...
3. see 2

This might be news to you, but Ukraine is not in Nato.

Where do i write that Ukraine is Nato ?

E. Macron and O. Scholz pushed hard for "negotiating" or "to not hurt Russia's feelings..." and ended up facing the war crimes and to be heavily criticized.
IMHO Russia is running under the warlords logic: the leader has no other alternative to conquier more lands (open war or not) if he wants to stay in charge (up to stay alive).
And Ukrainians are giving their blood to be free after decades, and Putin is turning the crank of a meat grinder.

Show me a single nation that was formed and there wasn’t some level of this happening. You think when England was creating the United Kingdom they didn’t look to homogenize and standardize what Scotland or Northern Ireland or Wales was speaking or customs?