Russia / Ukraine - Topic

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#19571

Jan 11 2023 01:24pm

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 11 2023 07:51pm)

This cannot be stressed enough. Throughout 2021, Russia had deliberately let European gas storages run low (by only supplying the contractually obligated minimum) in a clear preparation of the war. In fact, they had spent almost two decades hooking Europe on their cheap gas. In the summer of 2021, they completed the final tests of their new Kinzhal hypersonic missile which ensured that nuclear deterrence would be upheld for at least some time, no matter which secret missile-defense systems the West might possess. Gas prices soared to the highest levels since 2014 during the 2021/22 winter. Nord Stream 2 was completed in early 2022, and mere days later, the invasion began.

If anyone thinks all these events lining up so perfectly was a pure coincidence, that Russia was still open to good-faith negotiations in late 2021 and that foolish Ukrainian refusal to compromise is the cause of the war, I have a bridge to sell him.

NATO's refusal to even start negotiations was a bad strategical move no matter how you try to spin it. In such instances there's always pressure on the opposing sides to negotiate, UN stepping in to mediate, whatever. Didn't happen.

That said there's no doubt that they prepared. You forgot to mention that they piled up a huge gold reserve. In hindsight it's clear that Putin was serious in 2007 (Munich speech) but no one cared.

And you also forgot to mention that the sanctions imposed by the West caused a spike in energy / commodity prices, they're hurting the EU equally hard.

Meanwhile

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#19572

Jan 11 2023 01:28pm

Quote (Djunior @ 11 Jan 2023 20:24)

NATO's refusal to even start negotiations

It is false.
Russia could have joined NATO. But why didn't they do it?
Because they wanted to keep their own local black markets & shits.

Santara

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#19573

Jan 11 2023 01:29pm

Quote (ofthevoid @ Jan 10 2023 01:16pm)

I mean it's quiet complex, yes the commies wanted to homogenize and make the same culturally different ethnicities for obvious reasons, it's a lot easier to control a conformed population. For example the primary reason why a lot of Moldovans and Ukrainians were shipped to Siberia was to basically extract resources from the wilderness with manual labor in harsh conditions but it was also to 'mix' the population across the new soviet world.

But again why is this all of the sudden being brought up and emphasized? I mean if we're honest it's to stir hate and rationalize the hate. This happened prior to WW2. You think if some external forces were highlighting the Poles plight during WW2 at the hands of the Germans or the Chinese suffering at the hands of Japanese in 2023, is it because of some recent interest in accurate historical accounting or is it to stir hate up? To me it's really obvious.

That is textbook ethnic cleansing.

Meanwhile

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#19574

Jan 11 2023 01:31pm

Quote (Santara @ 11 Jan 2023 20:29)

That is textbook ethnic cleansing.

"it's a lot easier to control a ~~conformed~~ dead population"

Djunior

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#19575

Jan 11 2023 01:31pm

Quote (Meanwhile @ Jan 11 2023 08:28pm)

It is false.
Russia could have joined NATO. But why didn't they do it?
Because they wanted to keep their own local black markets & shits.

???

What you're talking about, can't you can see I quoted BX who's clearly talking about 2021-2022.

Meanwhile

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#19576

Jan 11 2023 01:38pm

Quote (Djunior @ 11 Jan 2023 20:31)

???

What you're talking about, can't you can see I quoted BX who's clearly talking about 2021-2022.

The problem is exactly the same: Russia run by an authoritarian, opaque, and mafiosi governement that would only end up to lose its "privileges" by integrating free world countries.

=>

The invasion of Ukraine may also have violated international agreements that Russia is a party to, including:
The 1975 Helsinki Final Act, in which the USSR promised not to violate the "territorial integrity" of other signees, including through the use of force. Russia and Ukraine were both created as a result of the USSR's breakup.
The 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which Russia, the United States, and the United Kingdom agreed "to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine."
The Minsk Agreements, which are a pair of ceasefire agreements signed by Russia and Ukraine relating to the conflict between those countries that began in 2014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

In clear worlds: negotiation doesn't exists.

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Jan 11 2023 01:38pm

ferdia

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#19577

Jan 11 2023 01:41pm

your reaching / escalating a narrative here. someone else can refute you, or not. i disagree with your position.

Meanwhile

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