Ah yes, the rational view of "every political opinion in the world is based on or around Trump"

I never forced the Trumpists and international authoritarians to rally around Trump, his behavior and his viewpoints. They chose to do so.

Those opposed to authoritarianism will treat these groups accordingly.

Better crackdown on those nasty authoritarians so you can live in a free and tolerant world.

Ennemy of freedom has spoken.
Shocker to see he was also for the euromaidan coup to bring more of this freedom and democracy

Which talking points? And what exactly are you referring to by "hostile to the movements for democracy"?
The EU is not synonymous with democracy...

Russia has indeed been hammering Western mainstream politics for its glaring shortcomings in an attempt at undermining public trust in them and finding Western allies. This has partially worked, there now is a "pro-Russia faction" in Congress (and the parliaments of other Western nations). These factions are tiny though, Russia has clearly miscalculated the extent to which Western critics of the status quo would be willing to align with Russia on unrelated foreign policy questions just because Russia echoes their criticism liberalism/globalism/wokism.




What you depict as the "authoritarian International" are parties and movements which already were aligned on many central issues to begin with. On other crucial fields, they are antagonists. The fiscal policies of Le Pen's National Rally and the German AfD are diametrically opposed. The Polish nationalists from the PiS are not too keen on British Brexiteers wanting to kick out their fellow Poles, and so on.


The parties and viewpoints of the populist right predate Trump's by years, if not decades. They did not rally around his viewpoints, his viewpoints happened to match theirs. I would also distinguish between his methods (never back down from a fight, abandon mainstream media) and his personal conduct. Support for the former is a lot higher than support for the latter.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jan 11 2023 12:55am

agree with most of that, but while this is a bit off topic, trump does have a cult of personality around him.

Actually,

A bunch of pro-democracy hardliners desired Ukraine to become part of NATO / EU and therefor staged a coup in Ukraine thinking that it would work out for them. Those people were wrong.

The same hardliners simply refused to enter negotiations back in Dec 2021 reasoning that they're the good guys, Putin bad. A royal fuckup of the highest category, worthy of an official nomination if such a thing existed.

When the conflict broke out the same hardliners "designed" a mindboggling list of sanctions to shut down that gas station (while even tiny shit holes like North Korea just keep going), the sanctions backfired cuz many countries are dependent on Russian commodities which even a kid could've figured out.

The same hardliners have since been feeding an insane amount of military hardware into Ukraine thinking this would end the war but (shocker) it only led to further escalation.

To call those hardliners just "wrong" is an understatement, this unbelievable fuckup is sending people around the globe into poverty due to rising energy and commodity costs and is actually threatening world peace.

Well done (slow clap)

just in case people cannot follow your logic:

the pro democracy hardliners you refer to are not ukrainian, but american, correct?

on an aside, while you may not like what they have done, this is a medium-long term strategy, which they believe has (up to this point) worked out very well for them.

the fact that energy prices are soaring, is a byproduct, but not an issue, for them (at this time). if that makes sense. it would only materialise as as issue if it affects their plan, which for now, it does not. This is a medium/long term strategy and therefore byproducts are irrelevant in favour of the long term goal. in their view. if that makes sense.

finally, there is little point dwelling on this at this point in time. as you have said, the narrative is putin bad, rest of the world good (and can do no wrong). to reiterate what i previously said, i have moved on from this, i accept my view on the causes of this war are a minority, and i am more focused on what will happen next.

TLDR: there is little point arguing your position. it is well known. there is nothing wrong with people having different views on events, while accepting that this causes conflict, it is normal to have different views. where agreement cannot be reached, accept the position and look at the next argument/event. ultimately people can agree on alot of things, and disagree on alot of things too. this is normal. history books from different countries provide alternative viewpoints to events in history, and the same will occur relating to this conflict.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jan 11 2023 04:05am

I meant US / EU / NATO combined.

I agree it worked out very well for a number of years, NATO expansion clearly shows that. Up to this point though. Things are going downhill quickly now.

Commodity prices are a problem that affect the poorest nations the most, this has been reported many times. This doesn't mean the EU especially isn't hit hard.

I agree that this debate has become an endless Putin bad circle jerk and the conflict has escalated to such an extend that there's no end in sight.

Nobody thought that sending military hardware to Ukraine would end the war. But it did stop Russia from ending Ukraine as a sovereign nation, something you appear to be a supporter of.

If your going to project a narrative at least be somewhat close to the truth?
Why don't you post Russia's list of demands from 2021? You know as well as I do they were unacceptable.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jan 11 2023 04:10am