Yep that's your modus operandi right there.

SMH

A Putin quote from 2003? Can't you figure out that 2003 was before 2008, the year when everything changed ~> 2008 NATO Bucharest summit



I expected you to notice that tbh

IMHO it's the whole russian ruling class that didn't want of "advanced" democracy rules that could jeopardize their assets & privileges.

Even if Zelensky did that, there is no guarantee Russia would cease fighting or even restart an offensive.

If the Russians leave, the war stops. One man decides if the Russians leave.



Russia delivered an 8 point list of demands on December 10th 2021.
Intelligence suggest troops were massing at Ukraines border from October 2021.
So was an attempt at negotiation ever made in ernest? I doubt it.
More likely it's the seeding of a narrative.
"Oh look, we wanted to negotiate but they won't work with us"

Here are just three of those demands,

Article 4: the parties shall not deploy military forces and weaponry on the territory of any of the other states in Europe in addition to any forces that were deployed as of May 27, 1997;

Article 6: all member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization commit themselves to refrain from any further enlargement of NATO, including the accession of Ukraine as well as other States;

Article 7: the parties that are member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization shall not conduct any military activity on the territory of Ukraine as well as other States in the Eastern Europe, in the South Caucasus and in Central Asia; and


So would these demands ever be acceptable to NATO? Clearly, the answer is no.

Not to mention the irony of Article 7 suggesting that NATO shall not conduct miltary activity in Ukraine after nearly a decade of Russis supporting separatist groups, ceasing Crimea and then preparing a full scale invasion.

I know the demands, we just recently debated the same subject remember.

I said that negotiations are a matter of give and take and the demands are always high so there's room to maneuver.

NATO's could've held firm on most and give in to a neutral Ukraine like I suggested before cuz that seems so important to the Russians.

But they didn't even want to start negotiations, you know that right.

no agreement will come of going over this old ground. roll on the invasion / liberation of crimea, and lets see what happens when russia cant stop ukraine.

1905 or 1917, almost the same situation

Ukraine's unstoppable counter offensive was the talk of the day months ago.

Why didn't Ukraine press on while they had the momentum?

It all had to happen quick, before the onset of winter would grind things to a halt and all that.

winter.

You're predicting a renewed Ukrainian counter offensive in winter? All the way to the liberation of Crimea?

Or you say they were stopped because of winter?

This post was edited by Djunior on Jan 8 2023 04:41pm