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Jan 5 2023 02:24pm
Quote (Djunior @ Jan 5 2023 08:20pm)
December 2021 Russia put a new security framework package on the table. They were dismissed.

The bolded is ridiculous, you can't help yourself huh.

A security package would work both ways / for both sides.


That sounds great, but that ship has sailed ^^
You know, when tanks rolled over the border.
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Jan 5 2023 02:28pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 5 2023 08:24pm)
That sounds great, but that ship has sailed ^^
You know, when tanks rolled over the border.


Are we talking about the framework described in this article?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/17/russia-issues-list-demands-tensions-europe-ukraine-nato

From late 2021?

Those demands are literally insane and never going to be agreed upon.
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Jan 5 2023 02:28pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 5 2023 09:24pm)
That sounds great, but that ship has sailed ^^
You know, when tanks rolled over the border.



Dude

Tanks rolled over the border feb 24 2022

That's AFTER NATO rejected the Russian offer to negotiate a new security framework
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Jan 5 2023 02:34pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 5 2023 04:24pm)
That sounds great, but that ship has sailed ^^
You know, when tanks rolled over the border.


I wonder if there is a connection between those two things? Hmmmmm
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Jan 5 2023 02:35pm
Interesting discussion (Instead of "Boooh Nato, EU, and US, I just love to suck dictators") :

https://apnews.com/article/kyiv-russia-ukraine-war-government-7a4df498707bb047d2a322005c861fd0

So which one to pick ?

- Respect the russian religious day and do not blast them with precise missiles ? aka "we are not like them"
- Do the same to russians than what they did to Ukrainians during december 24-25 ?

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/12/25/world/russia-strikes-kherson/

Hard question. Honestly I am hesitating in-between these two solutions. Would pick up the first one, on a side note IF Ukraine blast some russians this day it will be more likely soldiers and not civilians anyway.


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Jan 5 2023 02:35pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jan 5 2023 09:28pm)
Are we talking about the framework described in this article?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/17/russia-issues-list-demands-tensions-europe-ukraine-nato

From late 2021?

Those demands are literally insane and never going to be agreed upon.


Negotiations = give and take and high demands are made on purpose which gives room to maneuver during negotiations.

For example the outcome could've been:

NATO retreating all the way to 1997 situation = no
Neutral Ukraine = yes
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Jan 5 2023 02:46pm
Quote (Djunior @ Jan 5 2023 08:35pm)
Negotiations = give and take and high demands are made on purpose which gives room to maneuver during negotiations.

For example the outcome could've been:

NATO retreating all the way to 1997 situation = no
Neutral Ukraine = yes


I mean I see where your coming from, but I don't believe that is a realistic outcome.

NATO can't be seen to close its open door policy or have Putin dictate its methods, that would undermine the whole alliance.
Even if the US accepted that, it would require all 30 members to ratify.
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Jan 5 2023 02:53pm
Couple of interesting pieces of information that could be somewhat related:

1. Ground is soon frozen in most of Ukraine
2. Ukraine said Russia will do full mobilization 5th January
3. Ceasefire offer made by Putin for orthodox Christmas
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Jan 5 2023 02:54pm
Quote (colorful @ 6 Jan 2023 02:22)
I love reading a good debate and seeing peoples talking points but you are just daft and have 0 idea of what you are talking about. I bolded the statement that stood out to me.

This is supposed to be a discussion about the war, not who is a jackass and who isn’t. A lot of people here reply to you and all you do is call them senseless or try to beat your beliefs into them. Why don’t you do what good old Deckard Cain has told us for the past decade plus: “stay a while and listen…”


Have you ever tried having a conversation with someone who supports their kids at the age of 5 years old taking hormonal pills to transition from i.e a boy into a girl because they like dresses ?
And when you try to have a discussion with them that it is too early and maybe let them grow a little older before they make a decision themselves because it will be life altering and they might regret it?
When you start to make statements and give your point of view, they start to call you transphobic, evil and human waste and the only thing that they call you is that or implied to be that, every single time you have an alternative view ?

Well, in the first place you are far from transphobic, but you have a different angle to the subject. But it doesn't matter, as long as you do not agree or have slightly different views, you are the root of all evil.

Have you ever gotten yourself in such a situation?
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Jan 5 2023 03:06pm
Quote (ownyaah @ 5 Jan 2023 21:53)
Couple of interesting pieces of information that could be somewhat related:

1. Ground is soon frozen in most of Ukraine
2. Ukraine said Russia will do full mobilization 5th January
3. Ceasefire offer made by Putin for orthodox Christmas


What's the weather in Iraq ? :rofl:
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