If NATO have the ability to melt Russia , they would have done a IRAQ or Libya on Russia.

They can't and will not. If they could they would have done it.
They will not attack or invade.
This is the power of Nuclear Deterrence. Even if you have a paltry number of " working " and confirmed " working " nukes.
Foreign invasion will be deterred.

Fool

Zero understanding of geo-politics. There are two sides involved, not one.

Sadly for you the opposing side this time ain't a small country you can bomb into submission like Iraq.

NATO is not interested in melting Russia, that is the point; but believe that if they did, it would have happened already.
NATO is not interested in threatening Russia, anyone that believes that completely misunderstands what NATO is.

Still waiting for someone to prove NATO is a threat to Russian security. Its obvious that providing evidence is not the general policy of tyrant apologists.



Of course there are two sides, but you just crushed your own argument with your own statement.
You've consistently claimed Putin's invasion was about Russian security. Suddenly your saying its about geo-politics?

This is the absolute crux of the debate.
Which is it about? Security or power?

You failed to provide any evidence that NATO is a threat to Russian security, other than posting a chart of NATO expansion.
So now if you accept the invasion was about power. Then in fact we can agree.

Drop the facade of claiming this invasion is about Russian security. As if the kleptocratic nuclear power of Russia, is somehow a victim or somehow threatened by Ukraine.

Until 2014 annexation of Crimea there were no NATO alliance troops in eastern member countries. Even now there is only a fraction of the overall strength of NATO in countries that border Russia.
Countries willingly chose to enter NATO. Countries do not enter NATO in an attempt to threaten Russia. However ideal a narrative that is for Kremlin bootlickers, it simply is not founded in reality.

You are not entirely wrong . USA wants to diminish Russia's influence to a point that they are much less of a threat. The United States control Nato.
So in my opinion NATO is a threat. NATO is US's Trojan horse in Europe.

NONE of what you say matters you mindless drone.

Geopolitics and Security go hand in hand and a power that possesses 6K nukes aint gonna get bullied.

Klepto whatever / dictator whatever / Putin bad whatever --> NONE of that matters.

Ask the Western leaders during the cold war they NEGOTIATED with the Soviets --> the communist threat that was present in all of Eastern EU thanks to the Nazis and their war.

I think some of us didn't realized that Communist China was America's staunch Ally against the Soviets during the Cold War in the Pacific Theater.
And look what happen now. .

Meanwhile....


US polling reported on Dec 6 shows slipping support of Ukraine in the war, larger dip amongst Republicans and Independenta. Democrats the party of WAR and BLOOD this cycle. Wonder how long the voting will be out of sync with polled constituents. The appropriations act vote count looked partisan, but thought the war hawk Republicans would have all signed the war spend. Nope, Democrats leading the war efforts.

https://globalaffairs.org/research/public-opinion-survey/growing-us-divide-how-long-support-ukraine

This post was edited by RedFromWinter on Jan 5 2023 07:16am

Oh so now Russia is being bullied
This is too rich, carry on.



I believe the reverse is true. Putin invaded Ukraine because he wants to increase Russian federations diminishing influence. Not to mention the convenient fact of Ukraine natural resources, which when combined with Russia and Belarus would make give that bloc a monopoly on certain resources.

If Putin was really threatened by NATO, he would have invade the Baltics already. He's actually seeking a net gain from either controlling Ukraine or removing it as a potential competitor.

The hypocrisy is amusing though. We hear from detractors of NATO that they are imperialists and involve in geo-political wars about power and resource. And yet we are expected to believe Putin, the authoritarian dictator of 2 decades, who just happens to be a former KGB agent, would NEVER act imperially. In fact he is only acting in defensive of NATO threats, because Russia feels BULLIED?!
The same great nuclear power, and largest military in Europe. Feels threatened. Ok have your cake and eat it bootlickers.

If that is the case why the fuck is USA getting threaten by China's reach to the Solomon islands?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/26/us-wont-rule-out-military-action-if-china-establishes-base-in-solomon-islands

Are you that simple minded. Security threats can be viewed at both sides of the lens.
There is no right or wrong.

Hypocrisy is coming from your rather naive world view.

If what is the case? Don't strawman me.
Also don't assume Russia and China are the same. Russia a military paper tiger with nukes.

Putin apologists here are arguing Ukraine joining NATO(something that was decades from potentially even happening) was a direct threat to Russian security.

Prove it already.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jan 5 2023 08:23am