Here, FACTS https://www.nato.int/docu/update/2008/04-april/e0403h.html



All of this is common knowledge, unbelievable that you don't know about shit that caused this conflict yet you pretend you know all about it.

Smart and educated people have warned against this since 2008. You should check it instead of soaking up MSM shit propaganda.

And dumb statements like "wE DOn'T ApPeasE TyrANtS" mean nothing when those guys have 6K nukes, the only option is to negotiate / reach an agreement (in this case security guarantees for both sides).

Western leaders used to understand this, today's wokies apparently not. Idiots

This post was edited by Djunior on Dec 29 2022 08:05am

He's an angry elf.

As if we are to believe Ukraine joins NATO overnight.

You contradict yourself so admirably.
How does Russia with 6k nukes have security concerns over Ukraine joining NATO?

Just call it for what it is and quit apologising like everyday Russians are legitimately under threat.

The only threat to them is the dictator sending 100k Russians into the meatgrinder over his own geopolitical ambitions.
The same one that has robbed the nation blind and overseen the pillage of state resources.

Are we expected to believe Ukraine enters NATO and then overnight have nukes stationed in Kherson?
Please.

Scores of nations are in NATO without access to nukes.
It is not required. The UK, France and US have more than enough deterrent and capability to flatten Moscow and St Petersburg.

Are we meant to believe the dictator of the largest nation on earth, with the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons is threatened by Nazi's in Ukraine?

Please. He is threatened by democracy and his own failure to diversify the Russian economy.
Threatened by Russias diminished importance on a global stage, no less by its dependence on the black sea access.

If all you have is alot of nukes and dumb artillery, better use them while you can I suppose.
Perhaps you can apologise for Putin playing to his strengths to mask his actual weaknesses.

So when we get over the tickle fight and propaganda lines, what's the actual takeaway from the continued barrage of missiles striking Ukraine?
I think its reasonable to say we can't really know how many are being fired or how many intercepted, but we can figure that Ukraine has been firing S300s and definitely missing some number of shots, given the ground strikes from misses. Which we've seen- as the myriad in Ukraine they blamed on Russia inexplicably using S300s as ground-to-ground "because they ran out of cruise missiles"- and as the errant strikes hitting Poland and Belarus. And there's every reason to think Ukraine's propaganda numbers reporting number of launching Russian missiles would be on the low end, and that their number of reported interceptions besides being obviously fake is probably higher than their total number of S300 and other ground-to-air missiles.

At any rate its clear that Ukraine is getting hammered, and Kherson appears to be getting the same treatment as Mariupol, and Kiev is no longer a safe haven as Russia has stepped up their bombardment. Ukrainians clearly aren't keeping the power on at least. But the weather is still pretty mild and forecast mild for the week to come, we haven't seen the harsh conditions of winter actually set in yet, its not even freezing

I posted an image that showed all NATO expansion by country and year several times now, I'm not gonna post it again. I'm tired of this kind of denialism.

If you believe NATO membership to Ukraine and Georgia shouldn't be taken serious than fucking believe that. Whatever

And if you believe Russia's hardliners should just give up to NATO cuz they bad and you got the right to do whatever you want, go for it.

Then just shut up about the wars and shit cuz you wanted it.

For the few i can understand there's a major difference in-between shelling a whole area (ie: city with hospitals, maternities) without precise reco. VS doing Precise shelling (AFTER reco, and immediately move on)

I think it's reasonable to say that Ukraine has the full satellite & intelligence support from NATO, has access to new and precise weapons with skilled soldiers while Russia is wasting alot of it, irreversibly, with mostly the contrary technics (old soviet era shit).

Preliminary reports showed Russia fired 69 missiles at energy facilities and Ukrainian forces shot down 54 of them. Several people were wounded, although there were no immediate reports of any deaths.

Definitely Ukraine that needs to quit being aggressive though (orc thinking)

Two quotes, one author.


- "I am absolutely convinced that Ukraine will not shy away from the processes of expanding interaction with NATO and the Western allies as a whole. Ukraine has its own relations with NATO; there is the Ukraine-NATO Council. At the end of the day the decision [on Ukraine joining NATO] is to be made by NATO and Ukraine. It is a matter for those two partners.”

In reference to Finland and Swden joining NATO;
A direct consequence of Russias invasion of Ukraine which was apparently due to NATO expansion,

- "As to enlargement, Russia has no problem with these states - none. And so in this sense there is no immediate threat to Russia from an expansion (of NATO) to include these countries"

The author of these quotes? You guessed it.
Vladimir Putin

yes but level is different from this :

Pming you with d2 related questions.

Main takeaway should be is that anyone that thinks Russia's military apparatus is somehow on it's last breath and if Ukraine holds out a little longer then they will surely win is unable of critical thought and they believe things they want to be true.

It's weird to see headlines from both side about peace talks when in reality arms supplies have really ramped up. Russia continuously pumping loads of hardware into Belarus is interesting. Maybe they move in on Kiev again, this time with full force? Idk.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Dec 29 2022 10:42am

No nuclear -> no win