Quote (Ghot @ 16 Jul 2018 22:58)
Why Trump would make me embarrassed? He's unpolished, in a general politician way. That doesn't mean he's stupid, or has bad ideas. That's for history to decide. So far, what he's doing seems good to me.
Trump cares about Trump. Trump doesn't care what others think about Trump.
As for the IC and all the other committees, I don't care. They have no proof, so it's all hot air. Indicting Russians means nothing. We have no power to act on those indictments.
When you are trying to show interference, who ya gonna blame? US citizens, in office or out... or Russians.
IMO, our very own politicians have been hacking the election results for a really long time now. They seem to consider it part of the game. Thank god for the Electoral College.
As for Clinton vs. Trump, who's the crook? I think that should be fairly obvious. Clinton is dragging a trail of crap along behind her that is so big, everyone refuses to even see it. Hell, Bill was a crook too.
So far, nothing Trump has done while running or after being elected, has broken any laws. If he had, he would have been crucified already.
If you're trying to convert me to one side or the other... ain't gonna happen. I go with with what gets done, gets passed into law. I don't care about sides at all.
Right now, the Trump team, seems to be going in the direction I would pick.
I'm against this open border crap, that's been going on. I thought this before Trump came on the scene.
The economy is doing good, unemployment is low.
Internationally, I think the US is getting cheated in trade deals. I thought this before Trump came on the scene.
I think other countries should do more defense wise than they are. The good countries anyways.
There's 193 countries in the UN and the US pays 22% of the UN upkeep. Not smart.
The other good countries in the world want the US to be the police force for the world, but they only want us to do what they say. Not smart.
I was born 3 years after Truman was president. I've seen a lot of different ideas, and methods. After a while you realize that you can't just pick some party and blindly follow. You have to look at the big picture, and make up your own mind.
I lived through the cold war. Trust me, this crap today is nothing compared to that.
I don't expect folks to agree with me all the time or to disagree with me all the time. I expect people to sit and seriously think about things. Think about what will happen down the road, by things we do today.
I Imagine that to younger folk, this immigration thing is complex, something to debate about. To me it is really simple. If we don't get a handle on it, we WILL be a 3rd world country, in say, 100 years.
Anyways, that's how I feel. You don't have to agree. Like I said I expect everyone to sit down and think it through... every issue.
This debating an individual word, or phrase, or arguing about arguing is pointless.
Insulting folks gets nothing accomplished.
Not accusing anyone in particular, just saying that a lot of this crap goes on in here.
I got to give a lot of credit. You respond to everything, no matter how tough. Trump supporters often dodge or avoid difficult questions - you do not.
You are discussing this topic with me in good faith, and it's only fair that I give you an honest response.
Quote (Ghot @ 16 Jul 2018 22:58)
As for the IC and all the other committees, I don't care. They have no proof, so it's all hot air. Indicting Russians means nothing. We have no power to act on those indictments.
When you are trying to show interference, who ya gonna blame? US citizens, in office or out... or Russians.
IMO, our very own politicians have been hacking the election results for a really long time now. They seem to consider it part of the game. Thank god for the Electoral College.
True point about extraditing the Russians. Very unlikely.
And in large part, I do agree with your sentiment. The American population should be smart enough to not let Russian Twitter trolls or social media manipulation influence their vote.
Unfortunately, that's not the legal here. Perhaps it's all some grand deep state conspiracy, but consider the players. A Republican Deputy Attorney General launched an investigation headed by a former Republican FBI Director into a Republican President for firing a Republican FBI Director for investigating a Republican National Security Advisor and potential interference regarding a Republican Presidential campaign.
Furthermore, the interference committed by Russia was confirmed by a Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee and the 12 indictments issued by the Department of Justice were handed out by a Republican Deputy Attorney General - Trump's own appointee!
At what point do you not consider some of this hot air, as you put it? Do you think all of these investigations and committees and indictments are driven by Democrats? Not even considering the supposed Democrats that make up the Special Counsel, examine all the Republicans involved in these matters. Republicans very obviously benefit from Trump remaining in office, and it would harm their party to have him removed or weakened.
I think this is a key point unless you buy into the deep state stuff. I fully admit that I don't really have an answer for that.
Quote (Ghot @ 16 Jul 2018 22:58)
As for Clinton vs. Trump, who's the crook? I think that should be fairly obvious. Clinton is dragging a trail of crap along behind her that is so big, everyone refuses to even see it. Hell, Bill was a crook too.
So far, nothing Trump has done while running or after being elected, has broken any laws. If he had, he would have been crucified already.
This is a whataboutism, but I do think it is fair to point out the difference in how Clinton and Trump are treated.
On one hand, Trump is treated unfairly by the press. The media can over-react to every little word he says, and Trump is a guy who often operates off the cuff. At the same time, he's created such low expectations for himself that the media has given him too much credit at times (e.g. 2017 State of the Union Address).
Meanwhile, Clinton is a bit of the opposite. The media (excluding Fox, of course) adores Clinton. However, they are often too afraid to criticize her, especially for something as egregious as the private email server.
Unfortunately for the Right, they cried wolf too many times. Benghazi lost them a lot of credibility with Americans. And it's unfortunate because I really do think there was a case to be made for Clinton to be indicted for gross negligence over mishandling classified information.
There might have been some shenanigans with that whole email investgation regarding Comey, and I think Republicans have the right to be upset about that. I think politics may have played a part in it. If Trump did the exact same thing, he'd be eaten alive by the media and probably the FBI, too.
Quote (Ghot @ 16 Jul 2018 22:58)
If you're trying to convert me to one side or the other... ain't gonna happen. I go with with what gets done, gets passed into law. I don't care about sides at all.
Right now, the Trump team, seems to be going in the direction I would pick.
I'm mainly encouraging you to consider the new information available as all of this unfolds. This isn't 2016 anymore. We got indictments of Russian nationals...multiple members of the Trump campaign have now plead guilty for various false statements made to the FBI about Russian contacts...the Senate Intelligence agrees with the intelligence community that Russia undermined our election, hurt Clinton, and helped Trump...Trump's former campaign manager is in jail..Trump's personal lawyer's office has been raided.
Quote (Ghot @ 16 Jul 2018 22:58)
I'm against this open border crap, that's been going on. I thought this before Trump came on the scene.
The economy is doing good, unemployment is low.
Internationally, I think the US is getting cheated in trade deals. I thought this before Trump came on the scene.
I think other countries should do more defense wise than they are. The good countries anyways.
There's 193 countries in the UN and the US pays 22% of the UN upkeep. Not smart.
The other good countries in the world want the US to be the police force for the world, but they only want us to do what they say. Not smart.
Like I said before, I think it's plenty reasonable to support some of Trump's policies. I actually agree with him on some of these recent NATO talks. European countries should pay their fair share of defense (2% of GDP).
Quote (Ghot @ 16 Jul 2018 22:58)
I was born 3 years after Truman was president. I've seen a lot of different ideas, and methods. After a while you realize that you can't just pick some party and blindly follow. You have to look at the big picture, and make up your own mind.
I lived through the cold war. Trust me, this crap today is nothing compared to that.
I don't expect folks to agree with me all the time or to disagree with me all the time. I expect people to sit and seriously think about things. Think about what will happen down the road, by things we do today.
I Imagine that to younger folk, this immigration thing is complex, something to debate about. To me it is really simple. If we don't get a handle on it, we WILL be a 3rd world country, in say, 100 years.
Anyways, that's how I feel. You don't have to agree. Like I said I expect everyone to sit down and think it through... every issue.
This debating an individual word, or phrase, or arguing about arguing is pointless.
Insulting folks gets nothing accomplished.
Not accusing anyone in particular, just saying that a lot of this crap goes on in here.
I respect and agree with your overall sentiment. I disagree with you on your point about immigration and becoming a 3rd world country, but I understand your position.
I believe you're more reasonable than a lot of folks give you credit for.