You seem upset.

I should be clear. Russia failed to complete its own stated objectives.
Now their sympathizers are moving the goalposts, and claiming an unfair fight because NATO got involved.

Nobody wins in war. Absolutely lets see what happens. We have all seen what has happened upto this point, some people are clearly just in denial.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Dec 15 2022 02:54pm

In your propaganda ridden mind, you also fail to realize that Putin is a weak pussy who dreams of European partnership and negotiations. That is why he signed minsk 1 and 2, and let Ukraine build their army.

Even the "invasion" was a joke, nobody can take cities like odessa, kharkiv, etc with 200k army. That army was supposed to surround Kiev and force them into negotiationsNOT take ukraine.

It is the same reason negotiations were being held 5 days into the "invasion", and they sucked boris johnsons ass at istanbul getting baited like toddlers

This post was edited by ownyaah on Dec 15 2022 02:55pm

And yet, they tried and failed.

Russian TV was plastered with maniacs saying they would take Ukraine in weeks, if not days.

I imagine that Russian media is completely unbiased and free of propaganda... Its definitely a Western, NATO, progressive only issue.
Authoritarian dictatorships don't have a problem with propaganda.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Dec 15 2022 02:58pm

I see more western sources ascribing to them to what their objectives were and how they failed than them actually saying what their objectives are for the war. If Ukraine joins NATO, it's a fail. If NATO troops end up in Ukraine permanently it's a fail. If Ukraine takes back all of it's territory it's a fail. But right now, we are in the middle of a war, and none of these things are known or decided so to frame it and say they already failed is premature. But once again, consistent with general mainstream perspective.

They wanted negotiations where Donbass would be free and Ukraine would be neutral.

Obviously they failed, because only pure-brute force can break US-hold on west-Ukraine. Everyone knew this, except toilet human putler.

A year ago Russia suggested a security framework for both EU and Russia right?

NATO wasn't interested right?

Lets give Russia the finger right?

NATO playbook sucks and completely failed which is why Ukraine is getting wrecked right now.

So if Russia maintains control of Luhansk and Donetsk, and there is any resemblance of peace. Then that is a victory to you?

Regardless of whether Ukraine is able to join NATO, Putin will only get MORE NATO as a consequence of this war.
It's an absolute boon for NATO, on multiple levels.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Dec 15 2022 03:00pm

No, nothings remains free with russian authoritarian mafiosi kleptocracy aka "opportunistic democracy".
Ukraine would end up exactly like Russia (=> Bielarus) Donbass the same.

On the other hand demilitarized Crimea should not be a problem. but Russia want it all, including whole Ukraine.

It's not like Ukrainians ever had the choice.

https://www.firstpost.com/world/holodomor-eu-parliament-recognises-ukraines-soviet-era-famine-as-genocide-11817181.html

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Dec 15 2022 03:05pm

Yes if they keep the Donbass and Ukraine doesn't join NATO then that's a win for them. I mean if you've paid attention that's what their ask was over the summer for peace to happen.

And yeah NATO I think is better off as a result of this war, problem is it's better off with a nasty side-effect for Europe and the west in general. Assuming you're from the UK, have you checked prices on everything recently? You understand how important Russian energy was to the EU right? You think the average person is now better off because NATO is stronger or do you think they care more about having to pay way more for gas, food, utilities, etc.

NATO wanted Crimea and they're never gonna get it.

And EU is going to be the biggest loser of this conflict.

Cheap Russian gas that fueled their economy is gone and it won't come back.

So much win