To be fair to pro-gun people, Ukraine being attacked lends credence to the idea that citizens should have guns or at least be trained on how to use them. If Russia invaded most other European countries, including the likes of Germany, they'd have this wrapped up by now (not factoring in NATO alliance, just country vs country combat power)

I think it makes sense to train people to shoot and then if attacked have local TDF or government hand out the weaponry, like the Ukrainians did. But that assumes the country has an external enemy

This post was edited by dro94 on Mar 15 2022 05:07pm

i about had it with your poor reading comprehension. once again the answer is right in the post you quoted there:

regional security could have been achieved with de-escalation, normalisation, and trade.

no war required, works like a charm. i can just explain it to you, i can't understand it for you, but the least thing you could do is to stop lying about your questions going unanswered, pootin apologist.

does the enemy have to be external/foreign for that to make sense?

what if someone just capped hitler/stalin/mao early on because domestic terror

or trump for that matter

This post was edited by proccy on Mar 15 2022 05:08pm

LUL, Ukraine forces have been bombing the mostly-russians-inhabiting areas which proclaimed independence from Ukraine rule - for 8 years

"even though they could have" called off their attacks throughout those 8 years "de-escalated, negotiated, and tried to normalise relations" with independent areas.

so - those in Ukraine that you blindly ass-lick ... are actually guilty of EXACTLY that which you blame on Putin.

regional security could have been achieved with de-escalation - i.e. the US adhering to Russia's red lines and saying no to Nato+Ukraine.
regional security could have been achieved with phased normalisation after the US adhered to Russia's red lines. i.e. Hey lets dial it back we acknowledge we went a bit overboard here.
and provided Ukraine was not invited into a trade deal with the EU, that would also not have caused an issue. To be honest I think given enough time this could have let slide.

The EU and Nato should have just waited for Putin to die of old age and then invited Ukraine into Nato and EU and Trade etc etc.

the only problem with all that is that (to my understanding) its your view that America was right to ignore Russia's red lines, America was right not to seek phased de-escalation and normalisation and the EU still wants Ukraine as does Nato. i.e. your entire logic is based on Russia backing down (before invading) rather then the west backing down (before Russia's invasion). You have not said how the west could alleviate Putin's fears or what Putin could have done differently. Look I get it, he invaded Ukraine, he's the bad guy, but as we have said so many many times, if Cuba had missiles or if Canada went into a strategic military alliance with China and lined the US border with missiles (hey defensive only we swear) there is no way that America would or should let that stand, and yes they would then be considered the bad guys, but wait, no china is the enemy, so canada would be seen as the enemy. So really now, what other option did putin have to stop Ukraine from joining Nato and the EU and having missiles aimed at Russia.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 15 2022 05:25pm

If it's an internal threat then the people would need to own the guns, but as observed in America that comes at a great cost, and I'm glad we don't have that. There would need to be a full blown civil war, and that hasn't happened since the Restoration

wrong. germany is in the NATO. had russia attacked it, the whole world would have gone up in flames. also, the gun nut argument is defence against their own tyrannical government, and when you look at the US, they didn't do jack shit against it, even though they have the highest incarcerated population in the history of mankind, a brutal police force regularly abusing and killing them, a broken political and legal system that exclusively works for big corporations, massive surveillance programs spying on them, paid for with their own tax money...

i have to say though, i had to chuckle a bit imagining the gravy seals in their walmart tacticool gear and semi-automatic rifles charging russian tanks with mobility scooters...

im just going to put a line here just to help fender from double posting. I am considerate and all.

it really speaks for itself that to you, de-escalation is doing what RUSSIA wants - even after they INVADED ukraine, occupied major parts of their country, and ukraine merely sought PROTECTION against further aggression.
you're really looking at this exclusively from pootin's perspective, uncritically accepting his rationales for war as factual truths. pathetic...

I edited my post shortly after to clarify I deliberately didn't factor in NATO