Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 13 2022 09:23am)

Just like the rulers have to abide by those laws/rules, for example respecting freedom of speech and assembly and not have their secret police violently crack down on peaceful protesters.


Note that I never claimed that Yanukovych was "illegitimate". And Trump is actually a good example: he never had majority support or a strong mandate from the voters, which is one of the major reasons why he got far less done than he should have.


The Ukrainian parliament at the time was also elected in a free and fair election and produced a pro-EU majority. Also note that on the 2010 campaign trail, Yanukovych had promised to not stand in the way of a Ukrainian EU membership. When the EU-UA association agreement was being drafted, he didn't speak out against it either. It was only in the 11th hour that he "changed" his mind (read: got a phone call from his puppet masters in Moscow) and decided to veto the agreement. The Maidan protesters had every right to be incensed. From there, tensions built up until the whole situation exploded in one gigantic clusterfuck of violence and chaos.



The only oblasts which had no representation in government were the ones which seceded out of their own volition. Pro-Yanukovych oblasts which remained in Ukraine, like Dnipropetrovsk or Kharkiv, retained their full democratic rights. Likewise, the new admin didn't outlaw all opposition, just those who were explicitly supporting the separatists.


Russia is most definitely willing to invest more, comparatively speaking. Doesn't necessarily mean that they will win though. The US and the EU clearly do give a tosh, they're currently incurring substantial military and economic costs to help Ukraine defend itself from Russia's invasion. And due to the vast disparity in size and potency, the West at 20% commitment level might well prove stronger than Russia at 80% commitment. Or it won't, time will tell.

Quote (Norlander @ 13 Dec 2022 22:21)

Wosim łet

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ 13 Dec 2022 18:39)

Holy shit Tosha.
I m at a bar drinking now in Hong Kong.
They are playing this movie at the background.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outside_the_Wire

The propaganda is far reaching. The nuances of this movie.
:rofl:

Quote (Norlander @ 13 Dec 2022 23:55)

Everything is fine but the terrorist's last name is Ukrainian (Koval -> old slav "Smith"). Thought he should be Russian to keep the propaganda pace. I'm cool with Russians are always baddies in any movie for the past thirty years or more. Hitler did the same with Jews. So if you ever fall deep enough into sending "ruskies" into concentration camps then wheel of history just turned again.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Dec 12 2022 10:29pm)

Your trying to justify a war that benefits an oppressive dictator. We all get it.

Putin has been funding and supporting separatism in eastern Ukraine for decades.
He never had any intention of respecting Ukraines sovereignty.

He showed disdain for the Budapest agreement from the beginning of his autocracy.

So go back as far as you want.

Go back to the collapse of the USSR.
Go back to 90% of Ukrainians voting to secede from the Soviet union.
Go back to the holodomir.

I agree that Putin can't allow a free, democratic and western aligned Ukraine to exist.
Or as you call it "NATO" expansion.
The reason he cannot accept it, is not for any other purpose, than to secure his regimes existence.

Russians and Ukrainians are alike. No dictator would allow a nation of like minded people next door to exist in freedom.
Far too dangerous.

Invading Ukraine has much less to do with the security of Russians, as it does the security of Putins regime.

Proceed as you wish, I'm through reasoning with subjective and framed responses.
Only remember that denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ 13 Dec 2022 18:57)

Touche.
Waiting for you to come hong kong.

Quote (Djunior @ Dec 13 2022 04:06pm)

I'm done with you too buddy. Go ahead and support a war against a 6K nukes power cuz you don't like their leaders, lol

At least I remember times when our leaders understood you just negotiate with those guys and everything is fine ;)

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Dec 13 2022 05:24pm)

Nonsense post. Zero substance.

What I am interested in is if Russians are seeing the footage from the war.

Apparently Putin is keeping exposure to the war as low as possible for the everyday Russians.
Understandably.
It's hard to be supportive when you watch videos of Russian troops hit directly by a himar rocket.

The western media is far from perfect.
There is at least the freedom to criticize a policy or feature of the government.

Its incredibly interesting to me how a small number of oligarchs are creating the narrative for 140 million people, through their control of the media.

I saw one show that was Russian orthodox speakers debating if Zelensky is the anti-christ or just a smaller demon.

There are plenty of religious crazies everywhere but not many of them make it onto state sponsored TV channels.

Quote (Djunior @ Dec 13 2022 04:31pm)

WTF lol. My posts make perfect sense, yours don't. You're just raging about their leaders time and time again.

Guess what: they don't give a fuck that the West doesn't like their politics. Maybe they don't like our politics and leaders either you know.

If you can understand that you realize that the only option out there is to negotiate cuz war between Russia and the West is a very bad idea.

You're the one that doesn't fucking get it

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Dec 13 2022 05:43pm)

Absolutely Russians may not like my leader.
Something to consider however.
My countries leader has won 9 back to back free and democratic elections.
And she didn't even have to poison the opposition leader and throw him in a gulag.

My countries leader has not siphoned off 200 billion of my countries money. If only we had that money to lose.

It has nothing to do with whether I like Putin or not.
Its entirely about how Putin has leveraged the Russian people into the largest war of the 21st century.
Under the illusion that it is in the interest of their own security.

I have no feelings towards Russia other than disdain for Russians dying, for nothing
but a dictators survival.
And disappointment for what the EU and Russia could accomplish without a return to a cold war bloc style reality that Putin craves so badly.