We warn you, many time said Ukraine is red cross, you still did it.

Wosim łet

I think it's some "call for violence" report related



the old tactic was pretty good, so i don't understand

Dunno, even I started to hate and preparing to dumb bombass or vice versa, haven't decide yet

You can do that by posting the most grotesque propaganda statements in Russia. Could also be very informative.

russia has nazi???? You crazy we eliminate most nazi safe Europe 1945. Exactly what wrong with west here in your message.

Sometimes I feel I'm just drowning but they don't stop pulling it so you better find a source by your own.

Anyway here you go:

Perm city, Russia. A picket for preservation of the Russian language.


Went bad. A mistake in word "preservation"

well, it doesn't make a real difference in terms of the argument that a democracy must be governed by rules agreed upon by the voters and they must abide those rules
Its a similar argument to democrats who have long complained about the 'illegitimacy' of presidents elected through the electoral college instead of popular vote. And the Trump camp harped on that same line when it came to mail-in voting and covid restrictions. In the Ukrainian case, like many EU countries a plurality is what it took to form a lawful government and he clearly won a free and fair democratic election and the people had plenty of opportunity to vote against him in the future if their will changed. And its likewise clear that by overthrowing a democracy and replacing it with a pro-western government that outlawed the opposition, hunted them down and went to war with them for 8 years, they were disenfranchising that majority plurality of the country, mostly the populous eastern oblasts who had no representation in government from that point on.

Since the beginning, its clear we've been on the wrong side of democracy in this conflict as far as a moralizing lens and international law. But I also tend to disregard those kind of vain idealized foreign policy concepts. Being on the side of 'democracy' in Syria or Egypt or Yemen probably means getting millions of people killed and going to war with jews, having strongman dictators to crush the radicals was the right call. If it was actually in our national interests to overthrow a corrupt Ukrainian democracy beholden to Russia and replace it with our vichy regime, I'd be all for it. But even back in 2014 I was pointing out that Russia is far more invested in the outcome of Ukrainian and willing to act, than the US and EU who don't really give a tosh

Just like the rulers have to abide by those laws/rules, for example respecting freedom of speech and assembly and not have their secret police violently crack down on peaceful protesters.


Note that I never claimed that Yanukovych was "illegitimate". And Trump is actually a good example: he never had majority support or a strong mandate from the voters, which is one of the major reasons why he got far less done than he should have.


The Ukrainian parliament at the time was also elected in a free and fair election and produced a pro-EU majority. Also note that on the 2010 campaign trail, Yanukovych had promised to not stand in the way of a Ukrainian EU membership. When the EU-UA association agreement was being drafted, he didn't speak out against it either. It was only in the 11th hour that he "changed" his mind (read: got a phone call from his puppet masters in Moscow) and decided to veto the agreement. The Maidan protesters had every right to be incensed. From there, tensions built up until the whole situation exploded in one gigantic clusterfuck of violence and chaos.



The only oblasts which had no representation in government were the ones which seceded out of their own volition. Pro-Yanukovych oblasts which remained in Ukraine, like Dnipropetrovsk or Kharkiv, retained their full democratic rights. Likewise, the new admin didn't outlaw all opposition, just those who were explicitly supporting the separatists.


Russia is most definitely willing to invest more, comparatively speaking. Doesn't necessarily mean that they will win though. The US and the EU clearly do give a tosh, they're currently incurring substantial military and economic costs to help Ukraine defend itself from Russia's invasion. And due to the vast disparity in size and potency, the West at 20% commitment level might well prove stronger than Russia at 80% commitment. Or it won't, time will tell.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 13 2022 09:26am

Me too. A rare moment that I agree with Frenchie ....