Sure. I can completely understand that Putin would not want a democratic, NATO or even EU Ukraine on its border.
But to claim that the invasion is justified in the name of defending the Russian people, is nonsense. Its about defending himself.

i dont think they minded a democratic ukriane, provided said democracy did not act on said democracy, by joining a military block. i think ukraine joining the eu may have been palatable. also i was bold in my previous post, i made an edit, feel free to give out, just making sure my comment was not slipped in under the radar as it were!

also, as you know i edit my posts alot so here is another one: putin's vision of the world is not the same as yours and mine. in his world everyone else is the enemy and he thinks he is russia and he thinks he knows whats best for russia therefore, i can agree with you "its about defending himself" applies where his logic is that HE is russia.

in my opinion

TLDR he may see himself as a benign dictator but he just a dictator. its as simple as that. dictator in the truest sense of the word, i.e. he does not take orders, people are meant to follow his orders.

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 8 2022 02:14pm

In its crudest form?
No. In its literal form. Vladimir Putin started this war. It was absolutely a Russian that steered us here. 100% there are other actors.

I mean to suggest Putin is acting in the best interest of Russians is very interesting. Estimated to have siphoned off hundreds of billions of state funds, murdered or imprisoned anyone who dared to challenge his absolute power.
Sent thousands of Russian conscripts to fight a war in Ukraine. Ostracized Russia's economy, likely for decades to come. Cost ordinary Russians their freedom of travel.
Consolidated his inner circles power on the countries natural resources.

Putin has acted in his own self interest, while holding positions of public office, for literally 25 years.
When people look back on this maniac it will be a study on how singularity of power leads to total and utter failure of governance on behalf of the people.

100% NATO/West has acted appallingly and in its own self interest in its global interventionism.
I genuinely believe this idea that many of us have, that the wars in Iraq, Libya or Yemen were all badly executed and senseless undertakings. That idea, is getting in the way of seeing this invasion for what it really is. Putin's war.



He is a murderer and a maniac.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Dec 8 2022 02:28pm

I'm not Russian so it's not embarrassing for me. Sorry to burst you bubble. Secondly, Russia has been fighting the entire West combined basically.

Take into consideration not only the weapons / ammo / money donations / training of troops but also the huge intelligence war playing out behind the scenes. It's a massive effort. And then consider the long list of sanctions.

Reality is that Russia has soaked up everything thrown at them and they still hold a huge chunk of Ukraine. This is no embarrassment for Russia, it's an embarrassment for NATO / EU if you ask me.

And now Russia is mobilizing and will be fully committed pretty soon. There's only one conclusion --> Ukraine is fucked and NATO /EU are to blame.

Not even 5% of NATO's capabilities. Not even close.

I didn't say you were Russian, but its clearly painful for you to accept the reality of the situation.

Russia is bogged down in a war that was meant to take it 10 days.
They have provided NATO everything it needs to know about its capability.
It's even provided a testing range for NATO weapons against Russian troops.

The only people that will swallow this as a win for Russia might be Russians themselves.
Then again they have been living under a dictatorship without free media for 2 decades.
They probably believe anything at this point.

What's potentially more embarrassing than Russias military performance is the lack of civil protest from ordinary Russians.
Perhaps we can forgive them as they are basically living in an Orwellian nightmare of a state.

to be very clear at no point did i say that putin is acting in the best interests of russia. he is acting in what he perceives to be the best interests of russia. if you look at what i said you should see the nuance. also, for sure he is a murderer and maniac as well, and well there are alot of those, albiet thankfully not many of them are leaders of a country.

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 8 2022 02:48pm

I must be older than you and know that in the old days Western leaders were smart enough to negotiate with the Russians.

Those leaders would never have allowed for this situation to escalate like it has. Simple as that ^^


What's happening right now is embarrassing. The sanctions that were carefully designed "to shut down this gas station" failed miserably.

Russia made bank this year and all Western countries face increased cost of living and and in most cases, energy crisis.

Russia was NOT driven out of Ukraine, is now mobilizing and getting ready for take 2.

You totally fail to see what's going on dude.

Ukraine: Russia put rocket launchers at nuclear power plant
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-putin-government-and-politics-db24e22048b3c82746bc9beced967f7a
The barbaric ones are pushing it ever further into barbarism...

Sure, so if he actually believes he is acting in their best interest. He is doing a terrible job.
I would doubt that he is, he basically acted in his own self interest for decades. The mans a tyrant. Doesn't care if tens of thousands of his own troops die. Its irrelevant.




That's your spin on reality. For me its far, far from the truth.
Take 2 of a 10 day special operation. That in a nutshell, is the depths of your denial.

yea in hindsight he should have brutally supressed ukraine a long time ago, or else assassinated opposition parties in ukraine, or else sent in the army a long time ago, or even done total war and cut off the head at the start of the war (but im not sure if he even had that capability short of using ballistic missiles to flatten kiev). his long term strategy re: ukraine (if he had one) was rubbish. his ability to make ukraine do what he wants was almost non existent and his ability to get rid of people in ukraine that he did not like was incompetent. on balance one could say he was partially letting ukraine do its own thing, but all in all he has not reacted well to events whatsoever. giving ukraine 8 years to prepare for this war was probably the 2nd worst mistake he made (invading was probably the worst).

to be fair here zelensky has been brillant and putin could never have envisaged how good a wartime leader zelensky would have become. no one expected this.

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 8 2022 03:32pm