Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Dec 8 2022 06:31pm)

The british have reconciled with loss of empire, thats the point.

Most of the people who literally had to experience that reconciliation, are likely dead or very elderly.

In Russia that is totally different. Your talking 1945-55 vs 1990-91

Quote (ferdia @ 9 Dec 2022 02:43)

if that was the case successive british governments and media would not have railed against the eu for decades which culminated with brexit, in my opinion. i dont mind agreeing to disagree!
another analogy is british football fans thinking their team is brilliant and then being amazed when said team did not win the world cup ( i am rooting for them at the moment if this is any consolation. i really hope they beat france).

in the round normal people dont care for empre, governments and politicians do. therefore I would not be throwing this on the russian people, but rather putin and his cronies (re: empire), but whilst noting its my view that its not empire he seeks to reclaim but rather status quo he is seeking to maintain, albiet at the expense of a foreign countries (ukraine) liberties.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 7 2022 11:30pm)

Russia's offense had already been stopped before large-scale Western weapons supplies arrived. They are what turned around the momentum and allowed Ukraine to go on the counteroffense for a bit, but they are not what originally stopped Russia.


Russia has already mobilized 300k quite recently. It stabilized their front, but didn't give them back the initiative. It also didn't prevent Ukraine from taking back Kherson. Nor did it lead to the Bachmut front getting overrun.
And even with this mobilization, there was already noticeable dissent and grumbling in Russia. Drafting twice as many folks, most of them against their will, will neither be easy nor without risk for Putin. How much difference it will make in a spring offense will depend on the quality of the training these conscripts will receive over the winter. Spoiler: it will suck.


Russia and Ukraine are both sustaining heavy losses. With the big difference being that Ukraine is fighting for its survival while Russia is fighting to restore some vague sense of former glory.


Guess we will have to wait and see how this plays out.


I will surely not sift through 1800 pages to find specific quotes, lol.

And yes, as early as June, the prevailing take from the "Russia will still win"-faction here in this thread was something to the gist of "Russia might have underestimated Ukraine and botched the initial attack by going in with too few troops - but once they take things seriously, they will steamroll Ukraine".

Quote (ferdia @ Dec 8 2022 06:43pm)

if that was the case successive british governments and media would not have railed against the eu for decades which culminated with brexit, in my opinion. i dont mind agreeing to disagree!
another analogy is british football fans thinking their team is brilliant and then being amazed when said team did not win the world cup ( i am rooting for them at the moment if this is any consolation. i really hope they beat france).

in the round normal people dont care for empre, governments and politicians do. therefore I would not be throwing this on the russian people, but rather putin and his cronies (re: empire), but whilst noting its my view that its not empire he seeks to reclaim but rather status quo he is seeking to maintain, albiet at the expense of a foreign countries (ukraine) liberties.

Quote (Djunior @ Dec 8 2022 06:58pm)

Russia can still win? So you believe that they lost? You got to be joking. Ukraine can never win this confrontation and sadly Ukraine will be completely ruined after the West has fought to the last Ukrainian.

Secondly you've got no quotes of mine because the ones you need (to prove that I said stuff in June) are not there ;)

Like I said best you can do is post a quote of mine where I said at the beginning that it would be over in months (which would've been the best outcome)

That didn't happen because the West decided to pump Ukraine full of weapons and this dirt-poor and corrupt nation now has to fight the Russian juggernaut.

Well done NATO / EU

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 8 Dec 2022 19:31)

The british have reconciled with loss of empire, thats the point.

Most of the people who literally had to experience that reconciliation, are likely dead or very elderly.

In Russia that is totally different. Your talking 1945-55 vs 1990-91

Quote (Meanwhile @ Dec 8 2022 07:16pm)

It's very, very, hardly comparable IMO. Here we are talking about a country on borders, speaking a very similar language, close ethnies etc..
It's not like India or Tchina

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Dec 8 2022 08:12pm)

Is it a coping mechanism to deal with what Putin has done in the name of Russians. To blame NATO/West for what is happening in Ukraine?
Does it make it easier to live with the reality that Russia has tried and failed to take Ukraine, and now is firing missiles on civilian targets?

Honestly interested on what its like. Did have a chuckle at "Russian Juggernaut". Maybe "Paper Tiger" is more appropriate.

Quote

NATO welcomes Georgia's and Ukraine's aspirations for membership

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Dec 8 2022 07:09pm)

...More bluntly;
Brexit happening =/= a failure of british people, government or media to reconcile with loss of its empire some 70 years ago. A lifetime ago.

Invasion of Ukraine happening = a failure with some Russian people, the Russian dictator and its controlled media apparatus to reconcile with the collapse of the soviet union. Some 30 years ago. So what, 1-2 generations?

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Dec 8 2022 08:00pm)

"And a paper tiger? You have no idea."
The whole world has just seen what Russia has to offer, and well. I can understand it is embarrassing.

The way you post its like NATO's finger is on the trigger. One man started this war, and one man can end it.
But whatever helps you reconcile with Putin's war.