says an american? lol gtfo

The relationship with Russia is one of trading, and escalating military conflict. it has been before, during, and after the Cold War. an ideological battle of democracy vs communism shifted to a battle of democracy vs dictatorship. post-Cold War when the USSR disbanded there was of course a spurt of increase in trade, what was before persona non grata became a trade ally while they settled as a new governing body, and the west hoping they'd land on the side of democracy. they didn't, and since then tensions have returned and Russia has become an oil/gas market for the west with not much else.

look at this list:



as NATO grows the countries within NATO will still trade roughly the same amount of gas/oil/etc, but the countries on it's fringe that may buy things like cars, machinery, computers, etc if they're in the Kremlin's sphere become less likely to do so. these industries are Russia's only chance to escape its fate as a mining and natural resource heavy economy, which while still important relegates it to a mediocre potential. weapons are another way Russia can make a lot of money, and when countries join NATO they dont buy Russian arms. they buy NATO arms, and point them at Russia pre-emptively.

of course this does all stem from Russia's failure to modernize and democratize post-USSR. i dont lay the fault at the west's feet like bootlicker DJ does.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Mar 15 2022 02:30pm

regional security.

/e we have said this alot in the last few weeks. if u cant comprehend or agree with this, lets move on from this.

i asked you what alternative did russia have, your response was "dont invade". if they dont invade, ukraine joins nato, and russia then has another border issue with missiles pointed at it. what safeguard does russia have to prevent this? diplomacy did not work.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 15 2022 02:46pm

Would be great: does not join Nato but Join EU armed forces.

With as many people have tried saying this to him in different ways, I'd say it's a waste of effort at this point. He won't get it because he can't allow himself get it.

they'd achieve exactly that with de-escalation, normalisation, and trade. no one in their right mind would attack russia, and pootin knows that. the nation with the most nukes on this planet is 100% safe from military attacks by NATO members. so you'll have to come up with something better to support your claim that russia HAD to go to war, because that talking point is comprehensively debunked.

you know what causes the exact opposite of "regional security"? starting a war. so please, try again, or finally admit that your silly narrative that war was "inevitable" is bullshit.



not buying it. pootin might be mad as a box of frogs, but even he did not think that the relatively small ukrainian market would be instrumental in transitioning russia from a resource focused to a manufacturing (?!) economy - not that that ever was his plan, no clue how you came up with this tbh. also, russia's foreign trade has continually increased - despite "the west" being aware that it's not a democracy, and despite the tensions in syria and ukraine...

Russia already has missiles pointed at it, so this scenario changes their strategic position less than you might think.

Also, this scenario of Ukraine just joining NATO was already off the table when Putin took the Donbass and created a frozen conflict that he could turn "hot" again whenever needed. Countries with an ongoing war cannot join NATO, so the only real option for Ukraine to become eligible for a NATO membership was to cede these regions in its east, which was politically unfeasible for any government in Kyiv. Therefore, Putin had already achieved his objective of making a Ukrainian NATO membership all but impossible in 2014.

There are only two realistic explanations for Russia's recent actions:
- Putin is hellbent on restoring former Soviet glory
- Putin is scared that a "democratic success" in Russia's immediate neighborhood could ignite the democratic spark at home and undermine his domestic power

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 15 2022 03:11pm

they didn't go to war, just enforcing gun control laws bro

i think putin is more scared of having a western oriented ukraine at russias "underbelly" as a base for messing with its (or better putins) politics

for that reason russia already made their move in georgia back in the day

there was more to it within georgia of course, but with a western oriented version of it its only a matter of time until some shit starts to happen in russias caucasus regions

why are people so obsessed with the "nobody is going to invade russia" argument, which is beyond obvious, when history has clearly taught us that you dont need an invasion to threaten another country

the united states almost triggered the next great war over missiles in cuba

ukraine is the unfortunate victim of two big blocks and their geopolitical games