d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Minneapolis Cops
Prev1178179180181182326Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 0.00
Jun 6 2020 11:48pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 7 2020 12:35am)
And yet their orders were pretty clearly to march forward and push back any protesters who run up to their line, as is completely normal in riot suppression. It doesn't mean they can pull out an AK47 and spray bullets, but using their shields/batons to push anyone in their path is exactly what they're supposed to be doing, with good and ethical reason. Like all less-lethal force, it still carries risks. Someone lost an eye to a rubber bullet, people got their hands burned trying to pick up gas canisters. Who's fault is it that the "unarmed 75 year old man" got injured? He was out at a riot breaking multiple laws and was trying to face off against police who had issued warnings and made it clear they were going to sweep people out of the street. The police used the same standard procedure all other riot cops use.
One party in this story was clearly breaking the law, the other party was doing their job.


You didn't really do anything to counter what I posted. You just reasserted "they were following orders" and followed it up with "other departments do this so it must be fine".

Not often you see somebody making the same arguments that literal Nazis used to justify their actions.

Being told "march forward" or "clear the streets" is a legitimate order, but when the individual officer while following that order injures a 75 year old unarmed man, then that officer is not fit to serve because his/her judgement is simply not good enough to adequately fill the role. "There are risks" doesn't justify this situation, because the officer has the responsibility to make good judgement in how he carries out the orders.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jun 6 2020 11:49pm
Member
Posts: 50,916
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 5,335.99
Jun 6 2020 11:57pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 7 2020 12:48am)
You didn't really do anything to counter what I posted..


After you've tried this as if its the only thing you know how to say, I'm going to have to flip it back on you
You didn't counter anything that I posted. As I pointed out, the use of force here was well within the normal and expected usage for riot control and a legitimate order. You haven't provided any argument to say that what they did was not the same normal authorized force they're supposed to use. You seem to be mistaking different outcomes for different actions. An individual officer following that order injured a 75 year old man because a 75 year old man with poor balance tried to block their advance like he's one of the 18 year old rioters. The police's actions and authorized force is unremarkable and appropriate, but the old guy created a risk to himself by participating in a riot when he's not up to it.
Member
Posts: 49,896
Joined: Jun 19 2006
Gold: 3.88
Jun 6 2020 11:59pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 7 2020 03:57pm)
After you've tried this as if its the only thing you know how to say, I'm going to have to flip it back on you
You didn't counter anything that I posted. As I pointed out, the use of force here was well within the normal and expected usage for riot control and a legitimate order. You haven't provided any argument to say that what they did was not the same normal authorized force they're supposed to use. You seem to be mistaking different outcomes for different actions. An individual officer following that order injured a 75 year old man because a 75 year old man with poor balance tried to block their advance like he's one of the 18 year old rioters. The police's actions and authorized force is unremarkable and appropriate, but the old guy created a risk to himself by participating in a riot when he's not up to it.


You are completely batshit insane if you think this is normal, and the police chief said the exact opposite.
Member
Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 0.00
Jun 7 2020 12:02am
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 7 2020 12:57am)
After you've tried this as if its the only thing you know how to say, I'm going to have to flip it back on you
You didn't counter anything that I posted. As I pointed out, the use of force here was well within the normal and expected usage for riot control and a legitimate order. You haven't provided any argument to say that what they did was not the same normal authorized force they're supposed to use. You seem to be mistaking different outcomes for different actions. An individual officer following that order injured a 75 year old man because a 75 year old man with poor balance tried to block their advance like he's one of the 18 year old rioters. The police's actions and authorized force is unremarkable and appropriate, but the old guy created a risk to himself by participating in a riot when he's not up to it.


Police enforcement is not one-size-fits-all. "They used force typical for X" doesn't matter in the slightest because they are expected to use their judgement for individual situations. You are, again, trying to isolate individual factors because if you look at the big picture the conclusion is obvious.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jun 7 2020 12:03am
Member
Posts: 50,916
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 5,335.99
Jun 7 2020 12:03am
Quote (Plaguefear @ Jun 7 2020 12:59am)
You are completely batshit insane if you think this is normal, and the police chief said the exact opposite.


There are countless hours of video of riot cops doing the same thing to protesters all around the country
They issue warnings, dispersal orders, etc, they shoot off some gas or pepper balls, they march down a street pushing everyone back.
Journalists film it and act aggrieved when they get pushed back like everyone else, and we got bucketloads of articles by reporters talking about how they got hit with a baton or riot shield
The only point at which this differed from any of those other police lines clearing a street is that the guy stumbled after being pushed
Member
Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 0.00
Jun 7 2020 12:05am
Quote (Plaguefear @ Jun 7 2020 12:59am)
You are completely batshit insane if you think this is normal, and the police chief said the exact opposite.


This is the Trump cultist's main tactic. When the situation is irredeemably bad, isolate factors. Did Trump order the police or national guard to assault peaceful protesters? Well, he was traveling, and it's normal to clear the way if he's traveling! Did the police assault an elderly man? Well, they were doing crowd control. It's normal to force people aside in crowd control! Did Trump tell a bold face lie for personal gain? Well, he's a politician, and politicians do that all the time!

When it's not convenient, ignore the factors that make the situation unusual and focus on the most sterile interpretation of only individual factors.
Member
Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 0.00
Jun 7 2020 12:07am
Quote (IceMage @ Jun 6 2020 08:59pm)
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/06/us/buffalo-police-officers-plead-not-guilty-old-man/index.html

I don't really get the potent outrage over this incident. The man walked towards the officers as they were clearly part of a formation moving people out. They pushed him, but not particularly hard. Unfortunately he fell straight back and got injured. Discipline seems appropriate for these officers maybe, but assault charges are extreme.

I wonder if part of the thinking is to overcharge in some of these cases in the heated moment of protests to avoid political consequences, knowing that they'll never get convictions. If so, that's not good. But overcharging happens all the time to civilians, so I'm not that sympathetic that it's finally happening to people with authority.


I think the appropriate action for this would be fired, since they don't have the proper judgement in their use of force, and some kind of light charges that doesn't include jail time. Assault might be too much, and they might have qualified immunity for their actions anyway.
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Jun 5 2020
Gold: 0.00
Jun 7 2020 12:08am
Tryin to make China look good:



:rofl:
Member
Posts: 50,916
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 5,335.99
Jun 7 2020 12:21am
Not going to link the video, and local irish media is suppressing the story as might be expected in 2020, but there was a stabbing of a white teenager by a gang of black youths in Ireland last night that was livestreamed by the attackers, not sure if its connected to riots/protests. Hard to dig up details since its being so actively censored. And its just one in a series of attacks of black-on-white youth attacks in Ireland in the past few weeks.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jun 7 2020 12:21am
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
Jun 7 2020 12:45am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jun 6 2020 01:47pm)
It's harming the non-black owned restaurants in the area (which btw dont necessarily have to be white, can also be latino or asian...) because they are put at a competitive disadvantage compared with black restaurants.
And all that just so a multinational corporation can jump on the virtue signalling bandwagon and score woke points with the internet sjw crowd.


It's definitely virtue signaling but it's not a big deal either. The competitive advantage isn't particularly significant.

I will say this though: Why is it so difficult for some people on this forum to say, "yea, blacks got the short end of the stick AND police need to be significantly reformed." They always seem to skirt around this issue...
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1178179180181182326Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll