Quote (Black XistenZ @ Nov 26 2022 02:02am)

They wouldn't drop a nuke on the invader's forces on their own border, they would drop a nuke on the invader's capital.


So the fact that Russian leaders from 100 years ago were despotic tyrants who recklessly sacrificed their troops for military gain is supposed to be a justification for Russia's present-day warfare?


Of course a country can have multiple security concerns. It's still a fact that the first border with a country belonging to a "hostile" military alliance (i.e. Estonia) has a much larger impact on their strategic outlook than the second one (i.e. Ukraine).


"Consider an application" is diplomat speak for "we don't want to demotivate you by shutting down your aspirations outright". Also note that NATO applications have to be confirmed unanimously. Even if the US (and England and Poland) had been willing to look the other way, there's just no chance that the Germans, French, Turks or Hungarians would have agreed to admitting Ukraine into NATO while there is an ongoing war with Russia in Donbass.


Of course they are concerned about western influence in Ukraine. That's understandable. This does not, however, give Russia the right to treat a sovereign country like a vassal state or a colony. Russia isn't "entitled" to a sphere of influence or a set of satellite states.

Quote (Toocold @ Nov 26 2022 04:42pm)

If russia would be able to provide well-being like EU Ukrainian people would choose to closer ties with them.

But russia is developing country with nothing to offer outside but oppression sorrow violence and murder.

russia is backward nation which havent modernise at all, nothing has changed after Ivan the Terrible and that was 500years ago.

Same old military conquests continue, that "country" is prison of 200nations. like ussr it is based on lies and betrayal.

Quote (Toocold @ 26 Nov 2022 16:42)

If russia would be able to provide well-being like EU Ukrainian people would choose to closer ties with them.

But russia is developing country with nothing to offer outside but oppression sorrow violence and murder.

russia is backward nation which havent modernise at all, nothing has changed after Ivan the Terrible and that was 500years ago.

Same old military conquests continue, that "country" is prison of 200nations. like ussr it is based on lies and betrayal.

Quote (Toocold @ 26 Nov 2022 18:48)

russia had bit more sensible leaders after stalin death, after ww2 another war wasnt anyone interest, now it was just on putin interests

Quote (Meanwhile @ 26 Nov 2022 17:57)

Ukrainians, Iranians, North Koreans, or Chinese dissidents, these countries are prisons for like 90% of their people, 10% remaining are leeches who deserve to be neutralized.
Norlander (Russian with Ukrainian grand mother) said it himself; a large part of Russia is still living in the 18-19th century because the whole money is gone in corrupted people 's pockets.

After that, this topic is destroyed by uneducated posters lacking basic human values or bed-shitters who will problably ignore what you said and will deflect on something else like "evil US", "Both Sides", or "Bouh Nukes".

Quote (Ironfister @ 26 Nov 2022 18:41)

I believe you wanted to say Russians not Ukrainians?
Because Ukrainians are free people, except in Russia occupied lands of course.
Im not also not that sure about China, when compared with Russia they seem kind of balanced dictatorship, where the government actually cares about their people little bit.
Also corruption is one thing, but another is militarization.
Ussr had dozens of thousands of tanks. When you focus your whole country, everybody, on tanks, you cant develop your country.

Quote (Toocold @ 26 Nov 2022 12:00)

However in the 60's russia got another brainfart

Cuban missile crisis In order to achieve the goals, huge amounts of resources were invested and created in a crisis situation where there was no crisis in the first place.
Then the Kremlin tightened this crisis it had caused to the extreme, right on the brink of war. And after that, the Kremlin participated in the crisis, as if solving it.

Khrushchev had miscalculated, Kennedy was ready to pour more water into the already full glass.
Handling the Cuban crisis reduced Khrushchev's credibility, especially in the inner circle of the Kremlin
and that was one of the reasons why he was ousted.

Quote (Vastet @ 26 Nov 2022 18:58)

Your ignorance of history is mind boggling. The US is who miscalculated in the Cuban missile crisis. The only reason we're still here is because the US agreed to remove missiles they put in Turkey in return for Russia giving up on missiles in Cuba.