In PL we have very similar culture and lifestyle like UA and form 2016 we are quite open for ukrainians (before 2022 mostly economically).
Additionally many people in PL understand their situation because of II World War and Soviet Russia memories which are still quite fresh.
People around shows a lot empathy, pesonally I have sent money, brought some medicines to pickup points and helped to load trucks, and I do not know even 1 peson which did not done at least 1 of mentioned helping actions, everybody here want to stop it.

So UA keep fighting we are with You !!!!

This post was edited by cwic on Mar 15 2022 11:05am

You are ignoring all of the discussions that were had on this throughout this entire thread, with the information behind this view being freely available from various reputable sources on the planet. Your position to refute my position is not based on reality. I am not justifying Russia's invasion, and I am not saying this retroactively. this topic was made before russia invaded when the US could have said "OK we wont let Ukraine in Nato" and crisis averted. The US refused to do this thus Russia invaded. If you want to sit in your fantasy world of Russia invading countries because putin simply woke up one morning, had a brain fart and decided to do so, fine, but it is so far outside of rationale logic as to boggle the mind.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 15 2022 11:09am

i think yes, the US should use sanctions, trade levies, and many other non-violent policies to bring China into check. i'm less concerned with the US's position atop the world being usurped than i am that it's China. but china is only usurping us because they're doing China stuff. which is basically the way the US acted 100 years ago with regards to pollution, worker exploitation, propaganda, etc. So i dont blame china really, but that doesnt mean we should give them free reign to make the same mistakes we supposedly learned from.

i dont think the US strategy re: China is going to work. China is already massive in totality (i mean in everything it does). All it will do, in my view, is it will make China more cautious until such point as they feel themselves strong enough to completely ignore the American viewpoint. China is really playing the long game across the board. The real problem for china is their form of government, noting they are currently driven by one man's vision, without which they would undoubtedly be diminished (from a chinese perspective). If china was democratic and able to do what they are doing currently then its future would be guaranteed, as it stands it remains to be seen where it goes via its successive leader(s) after the current one (individual) leaves office.



there are several good video's in the JPS topic you referenced. see here in that topic and try watching this video, which afaik is quite old (years).



This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 15 2022 11:21am

if we've learned anything from North Korea its that even a complex playbook can be passed on to the next leader.

i dont think the US's strategy is going to work either, because i dont support the current strategy. we need to get very harsh over time allowing China to make changes before we ramp up every time.

China -gov- has a very long term vision, they have all the time they want and not just a mandate short window of 4-8 years.
Yet they would not provoke a crisis by bringing active help to Russia because their economy is not that solid to support sanctions.
Plus the sanctions done by EU+US are probably a bit scary, done in few days. Hot.
Suspecting many countries are lurking on a dismantled Russia possibility.

poland is simply the quickest way to the west, just one more border to germany. it's also the biggest country amongst ukraine's western neighbours with the best infrastructure connections to ukrainian population centres, and the countries are traditionally close and friendly with each other (for example, they hosted the euros together in 2012). regarding russia: for many it's just the nearest / only reachable place where there are currently no tanks flattening residential areas and hospitals, also there are still some pro-russian ukrainians in the east.



yet another lie. pretending like giving in to russian demands means "crisis averted" is just uncritically accepting russian propaganda. there's no guarantee for that, quite the opposite. also, russia would still be illegally occupying crucial parts of ukraine. the whole point of trying to join NATO is to PROTECT themselves from repeated russian aggression. you are once again putting the cart before the horse. you conveniently keep 'forgetting' about 2014.

the only "fantasy" here is to pretend like not denying ukraine the POSSIBILITY of protection "inevitably" had to lead to war.

why was war not "inevitable" when poland joined nato? why wasn't it "inevitable" when estonia, latvia, and lithuania joined nato? they all border russia. there is no logic behind your claim, you're just looking at the outcome, trying to justify it, trying to bothside a war.

As you've already been told in various forms of pushback on that thread, it doesn't make a difference. I can pinky swear whatever I want, all that matters is what I do.

There is no justification for eastward NATO expansion. Unless you've got one, then let's hear it.

poland doesnt share a border with Russia, and Baltic sea port access is less valuable than Black Sea apparently.

not that i disagree with your general points made.

The smugness on this one, despite almost all of your posts getting utterly eviscerated time and time again on here. Self awareness check needed, Fender.

Try to have some imagination/empathy. When I say "imperial expansionism" I am channeling how NATO expansion is quite obviously interpreted by those who feel, justafiably so, within NATO's crosshairs. At best, it's a containment strategy. You can call it whatever label you want, you can call NATO the "Fluffy fuzzy kitty cat petting club" but it doesn't change the end effect.

Be less obnoxious, please.