I know that the trenches before pavlovka were entirely encircled and destroyed. We even had a video of one of them filmed from ukr side talking about it as it was happening.

As for deaths, at least 200 dead on each side is scoured sources were saying. Lastly, Ukrainians are far less sensitive to high deaths in units.

This post was edited by ownyaah on Nov 21 2022 07:00pm

They deported and expelled all the ethnic Germans from their territory at the end of WW2.

Regarding Ukraine, I think mixed regions in which there are large contingents of both pro-Ukrainian and pro-Russian people will not be feasible. Imho, the only way forward is for the eventual peace treaty to contain a population swap, with those Ukrainians who want to stay with Russia getting Russian citizenship in exchange for renouncing their Ukrainian citizenship, and vice versa. Basically let both sides of this conflict physically separate from one another and go their separate ways.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 21 2022 07:02pm

Explain I don't really understand what you mean by phenom

It worked out fine in the end (not to say there weren't issues), the difference here is that Germans even in their fresh-after-Nazi state had thing called honor, a concept completely Alien to Russian savages who need to constantly be battered and have their generations shredded apart as they cannot accept a loss and move on from their savage mentality. Whole culture is built upon holy war with the sacred enemy, to blame anyone but themselves for their short comings.

LOL, you are one funny guy.

This post was edited by ownyaah on Nov 21 2022 07:14pm

By definition it should not exist. Otherwise, what were the last 100 years about?

On a moral level I agree, but at the same time if Ukrainians didn't mobilize then they would've been stream-rolled. And afterwards if the Russians had not mobilized they would have to withdraw or fight 200k vs 600k (completely unreasonable). Same in vietnam, iran/iraq war, etc it is standard practice on all sides of most conflicts

We don't know numbers, but estimates are anywhere between 300-600k Ukrainians mobilized so far. Russia 300k.

This post was edited by ownyaah on Nov 21 2022 07:17pm

As a German, I might be really biased here, but you're right: for Germany (and Japan, for that matter), the atrocities of the world wars were an aberration from the type of nation and culture they were before and after this period. Meanwhile, Russia has been a savage and expansionist empire without interruption for the past 500+ years.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 21 2022 07:20pm

I never saw Germans on national federally owned tv channel calling for bombing of Moscow, same way Russians are calling for bombings of Dresden, Berlin, London, entire Eastern Europe, Baltics.

Only language Russians know is force, and we will give Ukrainians enough toys to shred Russians orcs into atoms for as long as necessary.

Seems like its working based of ginormous progress by Ukraine during last 5 months, why stop now.