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Mar 14 2022 09:32am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 14 2022 11:21am)
That post is quite deep and I hesitate to respond to it noting it touches on several issues created by America or the International community over the last 80 years. i.e. Israel, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran etc etc. Ultimately America has pursued its America First policy overseas (crude I know but some minds might understand my meaning) but that this has had at times side effects which have been or are troublesome. I accept that this will not change how America treats those countries that it does not get on well with. I mean, its not hard to see why 9/11 did not occur in, say, Canada, or Switzerland.



agree with all of that but again I would not use WW2 as an example noting people get triggered when using that example (I accept its a valid point you made and I do agree with you though). I tend to abide by Godwins Law by not referring to that period. I also refrain from talking about Israel noting conversations blow up with regards to either of those topic's.


I get that but it's an appropriate example. I don't have a crystal ball to see how things could of been differently, but most historians agree that the way Germany was blamed after WW1 has a very direct link to the way their economy turned out which in turn gave the Germans a reason to turn to a populist like Hitler. That by no means serves to justify nazi actions but for objectivity's sake it's important to understand the mechanics of why things turned out the way they did.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Mar 14 2022 09:33am
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Mar 14 2022 09:41am
yes. [ note: we are not siding with the germans, we are outlining the root causes or drivers, or influencing factors of certain events, just as we are not siding with Russia in the current conflict.]

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 14 2022 09:46am
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Mar 14 2022 10:03am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 14 2022 05:21pm)
I cannot fathom how Ukraine and Russia can have positive talks right now. I just dont see how either side can agree with the other to enable a ceasefire scenario.


US tells Ukraine, hey that's all you get from these negotiations, play ball because we can't support you persuing any more demands... A ceasefire will happen.
Right now US is playing chessboard with Ukrainian lives by encouraging them to fight a battle that is ultimately doomed... to get better ceasefire terms for US geostrategic position.
If they actually gave a rats ass about Ukraine and Ukrainians, they advise them not to resist and fight in order to spare the destruction of their country.

This post was edited by Lebanon961 on Mar 14 2022 10:03am
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Mar 14 2022 10:21am
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Mar 14 2022 10:25am
The issue is not that Nato is expanding but that Russia sees said expansion as a direct threat.
If I was Ukrainian for sure I would also want to be in Nato, and the EU. (but I understand not all of them want this).

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 14 2022 10:25am
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Mar 14 2022 10:32am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 14 2022 11:25am)
The issue is not that Nato is expanding but that Russia sees said expansion as a direct threat.
If I was Ukrainian for sure I would also want to be in Nato, and the EU. (but I understand not all of them want this).


Threatening country feels threatened.

there are neighboring countries of drug cartel run shitholes that seem less scared than Russia's neighbors, yet Russia plays the victim.
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Mar 14 2022 10:43am
Quote (fender @ Mar 14 2022 02:07am)
from obvious lie straight into dodge. how unexpected.

guess what, "nobody talked to you once again dipshit" actually applies to your own post, so maybe think of a different way to deflect from you lies, especially in a public discussion forum, lol.

again, you've been wrong all along, so stop spreading your pootin propaganda here. just stfu, ampootin.


People don't "dodge" you because they've been found out

They dodge you because no one is interested in trying to have a conversation with you
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Mar 14 2022 10:49am
Quote (excellence @ 14 Mar 2022 13:34)
the little german/prussian/austrian whatever obsessed with race picking fights with everyone again. now where have we seen this before :wacko:


Can't beat the son of Pablo begging for a fuck on the street.

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Mar 14 2022 11:25am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 14 2022 11:19am)
That's an over simplified world view of reality. Actions have consequences, and only looking at the consequences will give you a limited understanding of why things are the way they are. It's like saying it doesn't matter that the Germans were treated harshly after WW1 during the Treaty of Versailles, and that has nothing to do with the German economic conditions that led to Hitler's rise, all it matters that in that specific moment Germans were bad.

You realize that much of ISIS is Baath party loyalists/forces that banded together after we toppled Saddam? So our intervention in Iraq directly led to the groundswell which was ISIS. Like these aren't conspiracy theories, they're historical realities.

The same with the Taliban in Afghanistan and many other places.

https://english.alarabiya.net/perspective/analysis/2015/08/21/Where-is-Iraq-s-Baath-party-today-


When someone says "the war in Ukraine was caused by EU/NATO", or "9/11 was caused by America's presence in the Middle East", you're totally ignoring the actual perpetrators of these events. That's a distorted view of reality. I have no problem with acknowledging how US/Western actions may have helped create the circumstances for some event.

Also, these sort of discussions always leave out the moral dimension. It matters what the values and intentions are for each actor.
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Mar 14 2022 11:40am
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 14 2022 07:25pm)
Also, these sort of discussions always leave out the moral dimension. It matters what the values and intentions are for each actor.


What are the moral values and intentions of the US in expanding NATO to Russia's front door?
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