d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev11621631641651664491Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Views: 285167Replies: 44906Track Topic
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Mar 10 2022
Gold: 0.00
#1631
Mar 13 2022 10:01am
Quote (Skinned @ Mar 13 2022 05:08pm)
Colonial thinking. Its up to Ukraine what Ukraine does.


Idealist thinking.
States like Ukraine can only be puppets in the hands of the greater powers they are caught between.
In that ivory tower of idealism, one may dream that they can choose free who's puppets to be. But when these choices affect bigger powers, those powers might and do have something to say about it.
Edit: Case in point US and Cuba.

This post was edited by Lebanon961 on Mar 13 2022 10:01am
Member
Posts: 51,659
Joined: Jan 19 2007
Gold: 26,669.00
Warn: 10%
#1632
Mar 13 2022 10:11am
Quote (Lebanon961 @ Mar 13 2022 04:01pm)
Idealist thinking.
States like Ukraine can only be puppets in the hands of the greater powers they are caught between.
In that ivory tower of idealism, one may dream that they can choose free who's puppets to be. But when these choices affect bigger powers, those powers might and do have something to say about it.
Edit: Case in point US and Cuba.


agree with all that.

I would say it slightly differently - Ukraine can choose its own path, but in order to do so, it requires informed consent to do so. It cant get that under the current Russian leadership but there is no reason not to expect this to happen in our lifetime, provided it survives the current crisis.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 13 2022 10:22am
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Mar 10 2022
Gold: 0.00
#1633
Mar 13 2022 10:39am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 13 2022 06:11pm)
agree with all that.

I would say it slightly differently - Ukraine can choose its own path, but in order to do so, it requires informed consent to do so. It cant get that under the current Russian leadership but there is no reason not to expect this to happen in our lifetime, provided it survives the current crisis.


Informed consent? Can you elaborate, please?
Member
Posts: 33,686
Joined: May 9 2009
Gold: 3.33
#1634
Mar 13 2022 10:43am
A military base near the frontline in Kyiv was hit, where foreign fighters were staying. Approximately 200 dead

edit: correction - the military base was in Western Ukraine not Kyiv

This post was edited by dro94 on Mar 13 2022 10:55am
Member
Posts: 4,584
Joined: Jan 30 2021
Gold: 751.50
#1635
Mar 13 2022 11:02am
Quote (Lebanon961 @ Mar 13 2022 05:01pm)
Idealist thinking.
States like Ukraine can only be puppets in the hands of the greater powers they are caught between.
In that ivory tower of idealism, one may dream that they can choose free who's puppets to be. But when these choices affect bigger powers, those powers might and do have something to say about it.
Edit: Case in point US and Cuba.


its truly idealism, especially because we have hard evidence with the infamous victoria nuland call, that the west interfered heavily with the democratic process in ukraine

selensky is a puppet and does not make fully independent decisions for the sake of his people
Member
Posts: 48,844
Joined: Jun 18 2006
Gold: 5,016.77
#1636
Mar 13 2022 11:07am
Quote (dro94 @ Mar 13 2022 11:43am)
A military base near the frontline in Kyiv was hit, where foreign fighters were staying. Approximately 200 dead

edit: correction - the military base was in Western Ukraine not Kyiv


The base was also used to ferry Western arms shipments. This comes after these comments from a couple days ago:

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/11/ukraine-needs-more-weapons-the-west-fears-provoking-war-with-russia.html

Quote
Speaking to Russia’s Channel One broadcaster on Saturday, Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov issued a warning to the West that could lead to a direct confrontation between Russia and NATO.

“We warned the United States that pumping Ukraine with weapons from a number of countries orchestrated by them is not just a dangerous move, but an action that turns the corresponding convoys into legitimate targets,” the deputy minister said, according to comments reported by Russia’s state news agency TASS.
Member
Posts: 26,334
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 15,155.00
#1637
Mar 13 2022 11:20am
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 13 2022 01:07pm)
The base was also used to ferry Western arms shipments. This comes after these comments from a couple days ago:

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/11/ukraine-needs-more-weapons-the-west-fears-provoking-war-with-russia.html


I mean, it was only a matter of time. You can't expect immunity for weapons to be brought in.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Mar 13 2022 11:30am
Member
Posts: 17,980
Joined: Jul 15 2014
Gold: 107.77
#1638
Mar 13 2022 11:36am
Member
Posts: 48,844
Joined: Jun 18 2006
Gold: 5,016.77
#1639
Mar 13 2022 11:42am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 13 2022 12:20pm)
I mean, it was only a matter of time. You can't expect immunity for weapons to be brought in.


A strike in Ukraine is one thing. A strike in a NATO country is much different. I think we can expect Russia to not escalate by striking weapons convoys outside of Ukraine.
Member
Posts: 26,334
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 15,155.00
#1640
Mar 13 2022 11:46am
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 13 2022 01:42pm)
A strike in Ukraine is one thing. A strike in a NATO country is much different. I think we can expect Russia to not escalate by striking weapons convoys outside of Ukraine.


The strike happened in Ukraine, on a military base.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev11621631641651664491Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll

© 2003-2024 d2jsp  Contact