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Mar 13 2022 07:22am
Quote (Djunior @ Mar 13 2022 12:55pm)
Hey I never said it's not...

As a matter of fact I've pointed out many times that both sides use propaganda. You should see radical nationalists like Eeyore get triggered over it, lol


Well Russia is the land of slaves (citizens) and the state of lords.
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Mar 13 2022 07:57am
Is nobody talking about the massive natural gas reserves confirmed in Ukraine? I must’ve either missed seeing it, or it isn’t here. To me this is probably the largest reason for Russian invasion. Ukraine is on the path to developing roughly 40 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. Enough natural gas to supply a large swath of Europe, with pipelines already in place to deliver it. If this were to happen, it would prevent Russia from being able to cut off the natural gas supply to Europe and make defending Ukraine in the national interest for almost every country in the EU.
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Mar 13 2022 08:35am
Quote (nolajack @ Mar 13 2022 02:57pm)
Is nobody talking about the massive natural gas reserves confirmed in Ukraine? I must’ve either missed seeing it, or it isn’t here. To me this is probably the largest reason for Russian invasion. Ukraine is on the path to developing roughly 40 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. Enough natural gas to supply a large swath of Europe, with pipelines already in place to deliver it. If this were to happen, it would prevent Russia from being able to cut off the natural gas supply to Europe and make defending Ukraine in the national interest for almost every country in the EU.


Is that why EU is eyeballing Ukraine then? Things start to make sense now, sounds like this is going to be operation Iraqi freedom 2.0 only with nukes :rolleyes:
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Mar 13 2022 08:41am
Quote (Lebanon961 @ 13 Mar 2022 07:33)
Good analysis imo. Poland is of particular importance due to geography. All the discussion about "geopolitics" and barely ever the geography part of it is mentioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6LIhNgsQoc

I recommend watching this brief video for those who think this war has anything to do 'being surrounded by free nations' or whatever :)
In geopolitics, if you don't know what an opponent will do, you must assume he will do the worst and plan accordingly.
For Russia, NATO's expansion past natural geographic barriers and into the open plains close to it's core population centers can not be seen except as a major threat.


This is a pre-1945 mindset though. Nukes render all this talk about missing geographic barriers obsolete. If an enemy force is on Russian soil, beating back Russia's army in conventional warfare and pushing toward Russia's heartland, this country's cities will turn to glass. And I guess the following nuclear winter will solve climate change. :rolleyes:


Quote (nolajack @ 13 Mar 2022 14:57)
Is nobody talking about the massive natural gas reserves confirmed in Ukraine? I must’ve either missed seeing it, or it isn’t here. To me this is probably the largest reason for Russian invasion. Ukraine is on the path to developing roughly 40 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. Enough natural gas to supply a large swath of Europe, with pipelines already in place to deliver it. If this were to happen, it would prevent Russia from being able to cut off the natural gas supply to Europe and make defending Ukraine in the national interest for almost every country in the EU.

Got a source for this?
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Mar 13 2022 08:53am
hard to believe we are rats in this sub which are still supporting the complete bombing and massacre in ukraine.
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Mar 13 2022 08:58am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Mar 13 2022 10:53am)
hard to believe we are rats in this sub which are still supporting the complete bombing and massacre in ukraine.


Yep. Its gross. I think there is a level of self hate there and deep down the feel they deserve this fate. Hard to love others when you have no reason to love yourself.
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Mar 13 2022 09:07am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 13 2022 04:41pm)
This is a pre-1945 mindset though. Nukes render all this talk about missing geographic barriers obsolete. If an enemy force is on Russian soil, beating back Russia's army in conventional warfare and pushing toward Russia's heartland, this country's cities will turn to glass. And I guess the following nuclear winter will solve climate change. :rolleyes:


Disagree. Not mother of nukes or space laz0r technology render obsolete or substitute for the basics. Geography also plays a role beyond pure military considerations.
Imo the nations that allow two way power projection between Russia and Western Europe to whoever holds them should be kept neutral, that way no one is threatened :)

This post was edited by Lebanon961 on Mar 13 2022 09:08am
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Mar 13 2022 09:08am
Quote (Lebanon961 @ Mar 13 2022 11:07am)
Disagree. Not mother of nukes or space laz0r technology render obsolete or substitute for the basics. Geography also plays a role beyond pure military considerations.
Imo the nations that allow two way power projection between Russia and Western Europe to whoever holds them should be kept neutral, that way no one is threatened :)


Colonial thinking. Its up to Ukraine what Ukraine does.
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Mar 13 2022 09:16am
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Mar 13 2022 09:58am
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/stephen-kotkin-putin-russia-ukraine-stalin

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(interviewer)We’ve been hearing voices both past and present saying that the reason for what has happened is, as George Kennan put it, the strategic blunder of the eastward expansion of NATO. The great-power realist-school historian John Mearsheimer insists that a great deal of the blame for what we’re witnessing must go to the United States. I thought we’d begin with your analysis of that argument.

I have only the greatest respect for George Kennan. John Mearsheimer is a giant of a scholar. But I respectfully disagree. The problem with their argument is that it assumes that, had NATO not expanded, Russia wouldn’t be the same or very likely close to what it is today. What we have today in Russia is not some kind of surprise. It’s not some kind of deviation from a historical pattern. Way before NATO existed—in the nineteenth century—Russia looked like this: it had an autocrat. It had repression. It had militarism. It had suspicion of foreigners and the West. This is a Russia that we know, and it’s not a Russia that arrived yesterday or in the nineteen-nineties. It’s not a response to the actions of the West. There are internal processes in Russia that account for where we are today.

I would even go further. I would say that NATO expansion has put us in a better place to deal with this historical pattern in Russia that we’re seeing again today. Where would we be now if Poland or the Baltic states were not in NATO? They would be in the same limbo, in the same world that Ukraine is in. In fact, Poland’s membership in NATO stiffened NATO’s spine. Unlike some of the other NATO countries, Poland has contested Russia many times over. In fact, you can argue that Russia broke its teeth twice on Poland: first in the nineteenth century, leading up to the twentieth century, and again at the end of the Soviet Union, with Solidarity. So George Kennan was an unbelievably important scholar and practitioner—the greatest Russia expert who ever lived—but I just don’t think blaming the West is the right analysis for where we are.

....

(interviewer)How do you define “the West”?

The West is a series of institutions and values. The West is not a geographical place. Russia is European, but not Western. Japan is Western, but not European. “Western” means rule of law, democracy, private property, open markets, respect for the individual, diversity, pluralism of opinion, and all the other freedoms that we enjoy, which we sometimes take for granted. We sometimes forget where they came from. But that’s what the West is. And that West, which we expanded in the nineties, in my view properly, through the expansion of the European Union and NATO, is revived now, and it has stood up to Vladimir Putin in a way that neither he nor Xi Jinping expected.

If you assumed that the West was just going to fold, because it was in decline and ran from Afghanistan; if you assumed that the Ukrainian people were not for real, were not a nation; if you assumed that Zelensky was just a TV actor, a comedian, a Russian-speaking Jew from Eastern Ukraine—if you assumed all of that, then maybe you thought you could take Kyiv in two days or four days. But those assumptions were wrong.


Kotkin is a scholar of Russian history. Good interview.
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