Your evidence that they wanted to stay is that Hitler wanted to stay in Austria and Hungary in 1945? Wow rock solid logic there, I can't argue with that.

No my evidence is Putin signing a decree officially integrating towns and villages that Ukrainians took during October into Russia "forever" by his own words, just to lose them mere days after. What makes you think Russia never wanted them if they had formal authorities and government structure set up there with Russian passports giveaways to "convert" the locals over.

Putin puts his regime security on the line to mobilize 100s of thousands of new orcs after his professional army failed basically every major objective since June. His army is gambling for whatever they can hold at this point, and covering their strategic failures with - Oh well, we didn't want that land anyway even though we said 2 billion times we are there to stay forever and protect the locals from evil imaginary nazis.

This post was edited by Palasan on Nov 2 2022 08:34am

not militarily. diplomatically and through funding separatist movements. Russia lost many satellite states, how hard really would it have been for us to make them lose more?

my point on their imperial nature and snuffing out of blooming liberal movements in satellite states is that the US alone is not to blame for the change of western ideals to their region. those who point to the not one inch deal are shortsighted. we've pushed east, and they've salted ground near them to maintain their sphere of influence. is anyone shortsighted enough to think Russia poisoning a liberal movement's leader in a border nation to them is acceptable under that deal? that not only are we not allowed to grow nato, but they're also under the same terms allowed to violently maintain their sphere through KGB tactics with no reprisal? at some point Russia's behavior nulled that deal. just as the USA's behavior nulled the deal. no one has ever respected the deal, not then or now. people who claim its a binding document that represents a breach of trust are naïve. the trust never existed. and at the time of the deal Russia didn't have the leverage to enforce it beyond MAD. we did, and we still do, without MAD.

this was a good post.

/edit, a very good post.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 2 2022 08:40am

I asked what area was claimed as Russian territory and then later reclaimed by Ukraine but you didn't answer so I dont know which area you are talking about specifically so cant really comment.

Lol orcs? Wtf is that ww2 era propaganda BS? Please...

What military objectives have they failed to achieve in your opinion?

Imaginary nazis? Lol look at literally any media about Ukraine before the war started and it's all about how everyone was worried about the extremely far right nationalists in Ukraine and the power they hold in government, you don't sound very educated on any of this to be honest.

its not hard to work out the importance that "deal"

the USSR is on the brink of collapse, 2 diplomats meet behind closed doors to make a deal, what leaves the room is the understanding that NATO will not expand east towards Russia. what is not stated is the terms of Russia's behavior. people who claim the USA is solely to blame for the breach of that deal never seem to take into account what Russia has done to also nullify the deal. do they think that a rogue diplomat was so scared of nuclear war that he was unilaterally given the power to promise zero expansion of an anti-russian military pact with literally zero accountability for russia? that even in the face of their collapse and the drawing to a close of the cold war that we just out of the kindness of our hearts promised to for zero conditions on Russia never for any reason move a literal inch towards them? give me a fucking break. surely there were details of arms sales, allowance for satellite state independence, diplomatic relations moving forward, etc.

and fast forward, we're in a world where both through US action and Russian action Russia is a shit state. funding troll farms to influence western elections, state sanctioned doping operations for Olympic games, annexation of areas and funding of separatist movements only to then use the deaths of those separatists as pretense for an invasion. there is no world in which Russian behavior is excused for Russian woes, even if US-Nato behavior is also heavily to blame. i have no issue with accepting accountability, russia and their apologists do.

It seems like you are here to showcase your stupidity other than anything worthwhile to debate with you. As for objectives beginning with Snakes Island and ending with current retreat from South there is so much failure only blind can miss it and ask about what failed military objectives.

Keep believing Russia invaded Ukraine because it never wanted to take its lands and hold them, wonder why Putin bothers with signing Ukrainian states as parts of Russia then if he has no intention of holding them LOL

Sorry you feel that way, you seem pretty emotional about all of this so there isn't much point discussing it with you.

Btw not sure if English is a second language or you are just upset but you might want to slow down while replying, at least in the comments you accuse others of being stupid in, it makes you look a bit silly.

i dont disagree with that.

Not emotional at all, Ukraine is best investment we made since handing manpads to Afghans and knocking out USSR into the black hole that led to its collapse. Absolutely perfect trojan horse to annihilate Russia as a conventional military threat for the next 20 years.

What looks silly is invading the country on pretense of fighting nazis, then exchanging the biggest nazis according to Kremlin for pro_Russian cronies and sending said nazis to 5 star resorts in Turkey who will come back to Ukraine after the war. Russia lost in 3 major war theatres in Ukraine already completely. And now its getting its ass handed to it in the 4th as well, its hilarious to watch all the excuses coming out from the naive simpletons, even Russian propagandists are constantly raging about their militaries gigantic shortfalls.

If things continue going as they are, Russia will be pushed back to far East war theatre by end of the next year and imminent collapse shall follow shortly after that. Why do you think Putin is begging Ukraine to start negotiations sending random African presidents on its behalf to Ukraine?

BuT LeTz PrEtEND RuziA NeVeR waNtEd thE tHe LaNdz aT Alz So mUcH EaSiEr to swallow full blown defeat when it comes.

This post was edited by Palasan on Nov 2 2022 09:15am