I am not arguing this view, remember zelenksy was not in charge for those 8 years. Ukraine was deeply divided and i think its a fair comment when I say that there was little compromise around the table (still is) for a long time.

Neutrality would be enough as well as recognizing Donetsk/Luhansk as autonomous republics within the Ukraine but there's something that you can't expect. "Putin factor".

Also agree with that. I tend not to get a hang up on events in the moment. i.e. the river is flowing. whether it flows one way or the other, there are some things that can be deduced i.e. "there will be a flood" or "it will flow into the sea".

They are doing okay so far. You got to look at it through the lens that you literally have the US (biggest military spender by far)+ Europe, basically the two richest continents funneling tens of billions in weapons and aid to Ukraine to keep them on life support. This war would of been over 7 months ago if this wasn't the case.

What I find sad though is most people think this is helping Ukraine, when in reality it's prolonging the suffering and the lasting damage to that country when in reality some middle of the road deal should of been sought 7-8 months ago.

But US is not interested in letting them have a peace talk or allowing the war to end or ceasefire.

Russia is not interested in a middle of the road deal, they want a dictated peace which amounts to Ukraine's unconditional surrender and leaves the country defenseless against future Russian aggression. Even now, when it has become increasingly obvious that Russia will not be able to capture all of Ukraine with ordinary military means, they just cannot bring themselves to accept Ukraine's sovereignty. Instead, Russia decided to stoop even lower and launched an outright terror campaign against critical civilian infrastructure, in an attempt at starving and freezing out the Ukrainian population so that they can finally break their will.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 1 2022 09:44am

They don't care if ukranians are suffering as long as it hurts russia in the process. This proxy war wouldn't be possible if not for the russian collusion hoax. Half the country became apoplectic about russia via TDS. Public support for sending billions in equipment to be used against a nuclear power and now American soldiers on the ground would be null otherwise except for maybe 5% of GOP hardliners. Derp state strikes again.

imagine being so eager to lick a murderous dictator's and warmonger's jackboots, that you get triggered into oblivion about people mocking his pathetic attempt to appear virile. that's some real dedication right there, ampootin...

You're not listening then. Middle of the road is basically implementation of Minsk 2. Key sticking points is that Crimea is Russian, Ukraine remains neutral and the Donbass gets to chose to either stay with Ukraine or go to Russia with the assumption that they would choose the latter because that area has been always leaning towards Russia.

To me that's not an unconditional surrender. They aren't demanding Kiev gov't be overthrown and a Russian puppet be installed, they aren't asking for 2010-esque Ukraine back. Ukraine has taken the position that these are unacceptable asks and would rather wage war until they retake these territories, with the west fully backing that point of view. What you want to happen is basically Russia retreating with getting nothing. That's not middle of the road lol, that's Russia losing, and you wonder why they wouldn't accept that?

Russia never respect its accords.

Any reasonable person would be tired of Russia, this is now more than 20 years that apathic russians are doing nothing to fix their shit putin-pant and his mafiosi-oligarches.
20 years with oppression of former territories and idependant media suppression. And the atrocities...

Russian regime must disapear.