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Oct 27 2022 07:40pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 27 Oct 2022 12:29)
There's a lot less granular news coming out of the Ukraine war and this coincides with Russia attacking energy infrastructure. We're probably losing a bunch of on-the-ground reporting from average citizens.
There's basically no new information out of the Ukrainian territories beyond the front lines where Russian sources can report on it, and even when Ukraine said it was aiming for media blackouts we still saw social media posts of details.

How much of the still-populated areas of Ukraine are blacked out right now?

To be fair, Ukraine has so far never gotten the chance to mount a large-scale offensive quite like this. While they were on the defense and needed to garner sympathy in the West, allowing lots of on-the-ground reporting helped their cause by exposing Russian war crimes, keep morale up if they were successful in skirmishes and so on. Now that Russia has the defenders advantage, and now that Ukraine's military will probably have to make hard decisions and cope with civilian casualties as a result of their offense, cracking down on the information flow makes far more sense for them. Also, from what I can tell, we are still getting plenty of reporting from places in Ukraine which are away from the frontline, like Kyiv or Dnipro.



Quote (Goomshill @ 27 Oct 2022 14:45)
Its an interesting topic too. All the nations have ostensibly committed themselves to the demilitarization of space, but Russia is accusing the west of effectively using civilian space programs as mercenaries in space, a sort of modern day privateering on the seas. So it becomes an issue of how involved civilians satellites are in active warzones. When they make up the critical communications infrastructure of an opposing army, one that is denied to your own troops but enabled for the enemy, are they legitimate military targets? Are they de facto parties to the conflict? We really have no precedent here, but its clear that 1) The western powers are pushing the envelope on treading on the demilitarization of space and 2) Russia is showing its teeth in response, whether or not they'll actually do anything about it.

For Russia the obvious best case response would be soft power attacks on satellites, knocking their networks out of commission by hacking, without needing to use force to knock them out of the sky. They do clearly possess the capability to do the latter, but it would be a direct escalation

The West being able to supply its allies with a communication infrastructure that cannot be destroyed on the ground is a huge and new technological advantage. It is of course a hypocritical stance by the West to deny this fact. Sure, they can argue that Starlink is a private company and Musk can do with his satellites whatever he wants - but if Russia knocked out Starlink satellites, it is the US military that would have to respond, basically making a mockery out of this argument.

Essentially, we're getting a glimpse into 21st century warfare in real time. The battle has morphed into a struggle over tasks like drone defense and knocking out satellites, or preventing attacks on one's own satellites.
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Oct 27 2022 07:45pm
Anyone know what the hell is flying over Arizona region right now?








It's just SpaceX not a ICBM we good XO

This post was edited by RedFromWinter on Oct 27 2022 07:55pm
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Oct 27 2022 10:35pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 27 2022 07:29am)
They have been before, and still had civilian reports spammed over social media. This blackout looks more like an actual blackout. Are there any up to date pictures of Ukraine at night time from space? Here's what it looked like in March, at least;
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2022/03/world/ukraine-satellite-images/

Yes, but when you post it you get people suddenly doing a switcheroo from "Russian war criminals are mercilessly destroying civilian infrastructure" all the way over to "actually this proves nothing, because one random Ukrainian PR hack 7 months ago said Ukraine was doing "light masking" against GPS-guided cruise missiles."

You have to think of one of Umberto Eco's "14 common traits of fascism" when you see behaviour like this: https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html

Quote
The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”


This post was edited by kusotarre1 on Oct 27 2022 10:39pm
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Oct 28 2022 02:46am
Quote (kusotarre1 @ 28 Oct 2022 07:35)
Yes, but when you post it you get people suddenly doing a switcheroo from "Russian war criminals are mercilessly destroying civilian infrastructure" all the way over to "actually this proves nothing, because one random Ukrainian PR hack 7 months ago said Ukraine was doing "light masking" against GPS-guided cruise missiles."

You have to think of one of Umberto Eco's "14 common traits of fascism" when you see behaviour like this: https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html


GLONASS, not GPS
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Oct 28 2022 03:09am
Quote (Norlander @ Oct 28 2022 03:46am)
GLONASS, not GPS


True, but it's also like saying Band-Aid for all brands of bandages.
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Oct 28 2022 04:04am
I want to parse the Ukrainian media blackout as best I can using Ukrainian propaganda sources;

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/10/28/7373882/
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3602744-ten-civilians-killed-in-russian-attacks-on-ukraine-over-past-day.html
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/yf119j/i_just_wanted_to_support_you_for_a_few_seconds/

They make their usual grandiose claims of killing hundreds of Russians with 10 dead Ukrainian civilians, all without even a single piece of evidence or specifics, just numbers pulled out of thin air by whoever still has internet access. Usually I'd be able to dig up some social media footage. Zelensky's address openly talks about how they are operating in the darkness of blackouts without any energy because Russia is blowing it all up. Not couching it as a lights-out operation to deny information to Russia, just telling his countrymen to weather the darkness of losing power. So yeah this is definitely a very widespread power outrage across Ukraine from the Russian bombardment.
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Oct 28 2022 05:24am
i like how some people are discovering the War. " they kill simple people, they break everythings ect..."
their is no law at war, only winner and looser. NO LAW !

Væ victis
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Oct 28 2022 05:57am
Quote (Lvivz @ 27 Oct 2022 14:46)
Are you still fighting for Zkp independence though?


Quote (Norlander @ 27 Oct 2022 14:59)
Unfortunately, no. Nobody cares about Zakarpattia, they don't even drone bomb it and hopefully never will.


Lvivz if I remember correctly Norlander doesnt support the war in Ukraine.
Or something changed? So many posts here, so little time to read all, could have missed some, lol.
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Oct 28 2022 06:13am
Quote (Ironfister @ 28 Oct 2022 14:57)
Lvivz if I remember correctly Norlander doesnt support the war in Ukraine.
Or something changed? So many posts here, so little time to read all, could have missed some, lol.


I don't support it, I'm mainly interested in Zakarpattia which (as for now) seems to be the most peaceful part in Ukraine. I see it as independent country which belongs neither to Russia, nor to Ukraine. I clearly can't speak for the people of Zakarpattia since I haven't been there for years, so it's just my opinion. You can parry it with independent Moscovia or whatever, would be the same.
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Oct 28 2022 06:32am
So not surprising:

UK Ministry of Defence added: "In the last six weeks there has been a clear move from Russian ground forces to transition to a long-term, defensive posture on most areas of the front line in Ukraine.
"This is likely due to a more realistic assessment that the severely undermanned, poorly trained force in Ukraine is currently only capable of defensive operations.

.
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